Ds (9) unhappy with his stocking - made me cry Christmas morning.

[cleocleo81]

I thought he might be but it was too late to do anything about it. I was really stuck for ideas as he didn't really have a Christmas list and I went shopping again late to get some more things.

He only liked a couple of items. The rest he turned his nose up at, i don't like that etc. Unfortunately although dd had the same number of presents hers were bigger so his stocking was half full in comparison. He was then quiet and stroppy. Saying his Ds had more as she was still unwrapping hers- they had the same amount but hers were bigger. The final price was a lot and I was trying to cut back. When I asked him what he didn't get that he would have liked he couldn't answer.

He's pretty ungrateful in general though and I am now worried about his under the tree presents as I think he will be the same. I try so hard in every day life to make him happy, to do nice things for him. He's never happy, nothing we do is good enough. His party wasn't in the right place and was too short, Harry Potter world was boring, his birthday cake was chocolate and he doesn't like chocolate cake, his birthday was boring as we only went to the cinema and I worked in the pm. Despite asking what he wanted to do and he said cinema. he always have a negative.

This morning I had to leave the room and he caught me crying. He's said sorry and come to see me twice so I think he knows he's upset me. I am just tired of his attitude. Everything is what he didn't get not what he has.

Haven’t read past page 2 but I think the potential adhd/ASD diagnosis makes a lot of difference here. It sounds like he is a bit overwhelmed by life at times and it comes out in these awkward, ungrateful ways.

I do think you have to parent gratitude into them pretty early on. Whilst I have sympathy there’s no way in the world I’d have accepted half of what you have said in your OP. The disappointment he has shown for things that sound bloody expensive. Harry Potter works for example. That’s just a bad attitude and if my kids had been moping about and grumbling I’m afraid they’d have received short shrift from me.

@arethereanyleftatall

Just to play devil's advocate for a second - why wouldn't you like a nicer child more? Sure you love them the same, but of course a human prefers to be around pleasant people more. Maybe the answer, rather than continually piling love on someone who is being unpleasant, is for the person to stop being unpleasant?

He's eight years old, ffs.

Have you not considered that the reason for his behaviour is because he's constantly treated as second best compared his sister?

@Elisheva

Children aren’t born with all of the skills they need for life, and this is something that he isn’t very good at. So you are going to need to teach him how to behave in these situations, including giving him some strategies to cope when things aren’t exactly as he wants them to be. I admit that in this situation I would be really upset, and tempted to take everything off him. But it would be better to use it as a teaching opportunity.

This is a great post.

@FourTeaFallOut

We made a pavlova instead - maybe a gingerbread house was the tipping point? I will try and bang out my best carols while I sort out the sprouts. 👍

Don't have too many sprouts or you might be farting the carols instead

@bunnyboilerx

I think his behaviour stems from believing hes naughty and knowing you find him irrating rather than being ungreatful. Maybe next year you should work on the bond between you, have time together without his sister and try and fix things. Sounds like a issue of self esteem.

We are seriously working on this and yes, previously this has not been the best. I have slowly accepted him for who he is whereas we did use to fight against it. It's been a long road. At times he can be pretty unlikeable. He sees a therapist, he has 1-1 time with DH and i and we try to have lots of chats and show empathy to his feeling etc. We are trying to praise him and notice all the good things he does.

He knows he irritates me and he likes it, he's admitted he likes to see my face. He is the kind of child who you tell to not do something and he looks you in the eye and does it anyway.

We have had numerous talks about how his behaviour effects others, we pull him up every time he is ungrateful. He stops in that moment but then does the same again next time. He says he can't control his negative thoughts. He has no filter, he wasn't bothered when I said his behaviour makes people not want to do nice things.

@Flowers500

Why do you accept him acting like this?

We don't. However, he's very complex. Telling some children off or having talks with them repeatedly doesn't work with some children. He is one of them. He gets told to stop, to be grateful, not to compare and be happy with what he has rather than concentrating on what he doesn't etc. He gets consequences for bad behaviour- he doesn't respond.

[quote MrsHGWells]@Dancingonmoonlight are you kidding me! It will be a diary if all the disappointments the DS has to suck up and bottle is entire childhood to appease his mother who has stopped trying because the gratitude isn’t on the same scale as his sisters.[/quote]
I actually try extremely hard with him. Not material items, but time, love, affection and understanding. Trying to do nice things for him and be thoughtful, these are thrown back in my face repeatedly. Would you carry on trying if this was the case?

@amusedbush

We are waiting for an assessment for adhd.

All of the fucking horrible posts calling him ungrateful and spoiled and a brat clearly know nothing about neurodivergency and receiving gifts. I have ADHD and ASD, and my social media has been full of content about how to mitigate this and manage expectations in ND children over Christmas because this is a well-known and well-researched phenomenon. Reading your OP, ADHD or ASD jumped off the page to me.

I am a terrible liar and struggle to cover when I don’t like something. If I say I don’t like something, that is me simply stating a fact but NT people take it as an insult, and at 9 years old your son hasn’t learned social tact like pretending to enjoy a gift. It also baffles me that a gift-giver wouldn’t want the recipient to have something that they will use and enjoy, so I personally would be happy for someone to tell me they would rather swap what I’ve given them. I don’t think that’s rude but I’ve been told that it is to wider society.

Even as an adult I’ve been told that I appear ungrateful because I don’t display excitement in a ‘normal’ way, which is hurtful. ADHD also goes hand in hand with Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria, which causes me to cry and feel crushed by the most minor disappointment. I also get very distressed or disappointed if something doesn’t go the way I expected, which would explain why your DS has been let down by previous events.

All in all he sounds normal - to me, another ND person. I’m sorry it upset you though, I understand why it did but I wouldn’t punish him or push him to change immediately.

You hit the nail on the head. Thanks for your post. This is exactly what he's like. We try very hard to help him and support him the best we can. Putting time into him, trying to show empathy and be understanding but letting him know the behaviour isn't acceptable. Coaching him, talking to him, preparing him for situations in advance, being patient. But it is exhausting and stressful and puts a strain on our marriage. I feel so much guilt At why he's like this. He actually said to DH he feels sorry for me as he knows I blame myself but it's just the way his brain works. It's taken a while but I am really trying to accept him for who he is. I feel desperate to get an assessment done and we are on the waiting list until March/April.

He knows he irritates me and he likes it, he's admitted he likes to see my face. He is the kind of child who you tell to not do something and he looks you in the eye and does it anyway.

I mean this nicely, but is this because he knows that winding you up is a guaranteed way for him to get your attention? So the look on your face means (to him) that he'll get attention, even if it's "bad" attention.

It's similar to dogs - if you inadvertently reward the bad behaviour with attention, even if that attention is shouting or crying, it's still attention and so they repeat the behaviour again. What happens if you ignore his tantrums completely and just tell him to come and speak to you when he's calmed down?

You need to teach him to re grateful. That takes time.

Sit him down in the next few days. He's old enough to hdbr such a conversation. Tell him you were shocked and saddened at his behaviour. That he should know by now not to compare to his sister, who may have 6 to his 3 presents, 1 big, 4 small. That's a behaviour of a 4 year old. Not a 9 year old. You expect more from him.

He should be ashamed. Hopefully he'll take it all onboard.

Missed bit of adhd. You really should have put that in the OP.

@icedcoffees

He knows he irritates me and he likes it, he's admitted he likes to see my face. He is the kind of child who you tell to not do something and he looks you in the eye and does it anyway.

I mean this nicely, but is this because he knows that winding you up is a guaranteed way for him to get your attention? So the look on your face means (to him) that he'll get attention, even if it's "bad" attention.

It's similar to dogs - if you inadvertently reward the bad behaviour with attention, even if that attention is shouting or crying, it's still attention and so they repeat the behaviour again. What happens if you ignore his tantrums completely and just tell him to come and speak to you when he's calmed down?

I do walk away as much as possible. Sometimes this is impossible though when you have to get something done then and there. When we walk away he calms down so we have learnt the hard way to do this, to allow him to calm himself down. This works well but it doesn't mean he learns for the next time. Or the meltdowns reduce.

You should have posted this in SN and been careful to explain all.
You do need to nip some of this in the bud. Have you tried all the advice recommended previously from SN knowledgeable posters?

@arethereanyleftatall

Just to play devil's advocate for a second - why wouldn't you like a nicer child more? Sure you love them the same, but of course a human prefers to be around pleasant people more. Maybe the answer, rather than continually piling love on someone who is being unpleasant, is for the person to stop being unpleasant?

So much wrong with this post.

We are not talking about a colleague, we are talking about a distressed little boy.

OP have you seen a therapist?

Once someone is labeled, they tend to live up to that label.

Someone has told him he's naughty. He's had to have heard it from somewhere.

Who in your family likes chocolate cake?

What was you and your DH's childhood like? Did either of you feel let down or the odd one out?

We have had numerous talks about how his behaviour effects others, we pull him up every time he is ungrateful. He stops in that moment but then does the same again next time. He says he can't control his negative thoughts. He has no filter, he wasn't bothered when I said his behaviour makes people not want to do nice things.

So what would happen next birthday if you bought him inexpensive, generic gifts and took him on a simple day out to a local attraction? Would he be his normally grumbly self or would he accuse you of not spending much and be even more aggrieved?

We have had numerous talks about how his behaviour effects others, we pull him up every time he is ungrateful. He stops in that moment but then does the same again next time. He says he can't control his negative thoughts. He has no filter, he wasn't bothered when I said his behaviour makes people not want to do nice things.

I have slowly accepted him for who he is whereas we did use to fight against it.

But you haven't accepted him at all. On the contrary you have listed the very many things about him you dislike. He will be acutely aware of this.

At times he can be pretty unlikeable.

and again, you describe him as unlikeable.
This is a fundamental error. Talk about the behaviour, not the child. Some of his behaviours are challenging. Rise to that challenge. Walk beside him rather than away from him.

He sees a therapist

What about you, do you see a therapist? I mean this in the kindest way. you have a huge problem with him and you need support to tackle that.

he has 1-1 time with DH and i
Great. Do you have timetabled 1:1 time? If he is indeed asd he will be attached to routine, it will help him feel more secure.

and we try to have lots of chats and show empathy to his feeling etc.

He needs the actual words to say, little role plays and cartoon drawing examples. Showing empathy is an adult phrase, he needs black and white examples of what to say. Also how to react if he is struggling in a situation where it is not appropriate to say what he is thinking. I used to get my son to squeeze my hand if he wanted to express a negative feeling in a public place, worked like a charm. He knew we would be able to talk about whatever was bothering him when we were alone.

He knows he irritates me and he likes it, he's admitted he likes to see my face. He is the kind of child who you tell to not do something and he looks you in the eye and does it anyway.absolutely classic plea for attention. He knows you notice him when the behaviour is negative. He has learnt this. He needs to learn you also notice him and love him when he is quiet, alone, telling you he doesn't like chocolate etc. Thank you for telling me, it's really helpful to know

We have had numerous talks about how his behaviour effects others, we pull him up every time he is ungrateful.

Again, keep it very black and white.

He has no filter, he wasn't bothered when I said his behaviour makes people not want to do nice things.

Ouch. He is overloaded with your take on everything. He won't hear anything until he is confident you have his back.

Most of all, he is probably feeling extremely anxious because Christmas is all about surprise and overwhelm, both of which most people find challenging never mind young children and those on the spectrum.

It sounds like he would feel a lot happier with routine. I think you're expecting him to just fit in when he isn't actually capable of this yet. Maybe try fitting in with him more.

I don’t think it’s helpful to pile the guilt on the OP for finding her DD more likeable than DS. Some DC are much harder to love than others!

I was in the same position a couple of years ago, though as they’ve got older DS has mellowed a bit and ‘golden child’ DD has become a bit more challenging so my feelings about them are much more equal.

I found ‘The 5 Love Languages of Children’ really helpful, to make sure I was frequently showing DS (and DD) love in many different ways. He is also ND but our relationship is in a good place now. Maybe love bombing would help? (There’s a book on it)

@cleocleo81 yes if that’s what it takes and especially if you are truthful in your view he may have AHAD. You acknowledged you treat the children differently, and seemingly gave less thought into DS gifts and often finding behaviour repeating and your son has an attitude of being naughty. Sadly I fear this has become a learned behaviour and response conditioning, and I suspect you are trying to pin the issues unfairly on AHAD.

@miffmufferedmoof

I don’t think it’s helpful to pile the guilt on the OP for finding her DD more likeable than DS. Some DC are much harder to love than others!

I was in the same position a couple of years ago, though as they’ve got older DS has mellowed a bit and ‘golden child’ DD has become a bit more challenging so my feelings about them are much more equal.

I found ‘The 5 Love Languages of Children’ really helpful, to make sure I was frequently showing DS (and DD) love in many different ways. He is also ND but our relationship is in a good place now. Maybe love bombing would help? (There’s a book on it)

How you feel about your child is one thing, expressing that quite openly is another.

We have a basic duty as parents to ensure our children feel safe and cherished. Clearly the OP puts her own needs to feel appreciated ahead of her young child's need to be accepted by his family. That's not ok.

She’s only expressing it openly on an anonymous forum. I’m sure she tries not to express it to her child!

Hi @cleocleo81 you've had lots of advice so I just wanted to offer some hope - I've been where you sound like you are. My ds is now 10 and diagnosed asd, but when he was 7/8 our relationship was at absolute rock bottom. I'll say it - there were times I hated him and questioned if I loved him. And he knew by my behaviour. I only interacted with him to tell him off because the rest of the time I actively avoided him. His behaviour was awful, he regularly told me he hated me and wished I was dead. And it contributed to the end of my marriage as I just couldn't cope with him and my autistic husband.

Fast forward 2.5yrs and I've had lots of therapy, divorced his dad, ds has play therapy and I've worked bloody hard on our relationship. In all honesty, it's helped that I only have half the time with him due to shared care, but we are on such a different place now and it's lovely. He regularly hugs me and tells me he loves me - I'm only allowed to hug him if I ask mind, he is autistic! His behaviour is much less challenging, although I worry he internalises stuff now, and he's learning to regulate his emotions. Christmas is always tricky as he hates surprises and gets so over excited about it all. Luckily this year he wanted a console and knew about it pretty much in advance. He also made a point of saying how much he loved each item in his stocking, a bit ott to be honest!

Have faith it can change. Make sure you've got a space to vent and get support. And happy Christmas

I actually try extremely hard with him. Not material items, but time, love, affection and understanding. Trying to do nice things for him and be thoughtful, these are thrown back in my face repeatedly. Would you carry on trying if this was the case?

Yes. You're his mother. If you don't do these things, who will?!