Why is it women?

[julieca]

I have known so many women who restrict where and when they drive because of anxiety. They won't drive at night, in the rain, in cities, places they don't know, etc, etc. And sadly it is always women, not men.

I know for some there will be issues such as astigmatism that means driving at night is not safe. But men can also suffer from these issues. Yet I rarely meet a man who restricts where and when he drives, unless he is very elderly.

So why is it always women who are anxious about driving?

Why is it men? All the people I know who have had to be forcibly stopped driving (by hiding keys, etc) because they are unsafe have been men. One of them had had a stroke and could barely walk and thought they were safe to drive and didn't need to notify DVLA, for goodness sake.

I think when you are operating a potentially lethal piece of machinery being on the cautious side about your abilities is far preferable to over-confidence.

Good point! 84% of convicted drink drivers in the UK are male.

I've thought about this a LOT. I think it's linked to what a PP said - it's the way women are brought up and expectations and in the case of driving, that often translates into women not actually being taught properly. this is then combined with the way boys, then men, are encouraged/ expected to be all gung ho and not scared.

eg, teenage boys, even if scared, would not admit that when, for example, an adult asked if they wanted to drive at 14 (illegally). Girls probably wouldn't be asked that and if they were scared, that would be okay.

Ditto driving lessons - expectations for girls and boys are often different. eg, talking to friends as a teenager, I was quite surprised to discover how many of my female friends were delaying driving lessons or by week 5 were still in only 2nd or 3rd gear. My male friends started their driving lessons pretty much the week they were eligible and were driving on the road v quickly. I have a number of female friends with birthdays at around the same time as me but I was the only one who got my license immediately after I was able to - the others didn't feel ready (that wasn't an option for me - my parents had a strict, "as soon as you can drive you must do so" policy). This was prior to the summer of our final year in high school and as a result, in my circle, it was the boys and me doing all the driving that summer.

Interestingly, a lot of the boys I grew up with were also given much more access to family cars when they first got their licenses. Again, so did I, but for a lot of my girl friends, that was not the case. There was also quite a bit of old fashioned rubbish where and when I grew up with the boys being expected to drive the girls places.

All of this translates, years later, into these women not having the confidence and experience to drive when conditions are less than ideal.

Also, I'm still bemused by the fact that you can't drive on motorways in this country until after you get your license. Again, based on my theory that even if they ARE scared, men aren't "allowed" to be, I can easily imagine a situation where teenage boys force themselves to do it, learning in the process, while girls don't.

I'm hoping it's a generational thing that is gradually dying out.

My mother is petrified of driving. But she was raised by a mother who didn't think women should drive at all, that it was a man's job, and that women were somehow physically and psychologically incapable of driving cars.

If you were told from childhood that you weren't fundamentally capable of doing a thing alongside all the other confidence-sapping nonsense that women were raised with in those days it's hardly a surprise that it causes anxiety when you do try to do it.

Hopefully, as this kind of nonsense dies a death, the attitude that women aren't capable of driving cars will die out too.

@TheFreaksShallInheritTheEarth

I have a touring caravan. I am the only woman I have ever seen towing; it's always the male partner! So there seems to be some reluctance about towing, too.

I tow! And have many friends that do.

Admittedly I initially let my DH do it all, but then I figured out how to hitch it and so on and find it's much easier than I imagined.

Not sure if it's got anything to do with it.
But, I drive a small car, smaller than we need (it causes problems!!) because I am worried about having a bigger car, there being an accident and me being more responsible for potentially worse injury because i'm in a bigger car.

It's completely stupid because my car is smaller than the average so I would likely come off much worse in a collision. Plus the DC. So I need to stop being silly. I worry about accidentally hitting cyclists so avoid places they might be (town centre)

@julieca I'm in my 40's so not exactly young.
I find that women I know do tend to talk about it. One of my neighbours who is in her early 60s who is quite capable of driving but not very confident is very open about and basically will only do it at a push but will happily boss her husband about and offer him to give lifts/pick things up.
My aunt never drove until my uncle died when she was 30 due to confidence, she passed her test soon after and then would still only drive when she had to and it was easy and local. She talks about it and always try to get plans altered to accommodate her.
There are a few mums in our village who don't drive but they all are quite happy to say they need plans changing or lifts giving, sometimes quite brazen, to the point of taking the piss. One told me she doesn't drive because the car is her husbands domain .... which I told her was frankly bonkers, mind you she doesn't understand why I love driving.
My dad is the opposite of brazen - last time he came I didn't realise he hadn't brought the car (very long trip) until he knocked on the door as he'd arranged taxis and trains as he didn't want to make a fuss - I would have happily picked him up from the station.

Ok so my memory is of being in the car with male adults as a child and listening to the criticism and anger toward 'bloody women drivers' - who were probably doing absolutely fine.
When I started driving I had a fear of inconveniencing people on the road and of men being aggressive and angry at my driving.
With experience I've learned to think fuck it....

But I think the way some women have been socialised could have a lot to do with it.

@Triffid1 I think they are all great points. And yes motorway driving, driving at night, driving in heavy rain and in busy city centres are all scary when you first pass. But I get your point that men are encouraged by society to face their fears and get over them, so do it anyway. And the more you do it, the easier it becomes.
I also accept that men are more likely to be overconfident with driving.
I do hope women being so afraid does die out though. I see it limiting some women's lives. Feeling afraid and doing it anyway makes a big difference to your life.

I watch a lot of vanlife you tubers and I would say in around two thirds of these it's only the man who drives the motorhome. I think there is an element of men actively enjoying driving therefore they do it mostly so the woman gets less practice and becomes less confident.

I agree OP, it is always women in my experience. My sister and I are one of a small handful in our circle who would happily drive a couple of hours down the motorway by ourselves or into an area we dont know,.with all sensible precautions in place - sat nav set up, adequate fuel, phone charged etc.

So many of my friends and family won't and in each and every case they have a DH who does it all for them. They put themselves in this position.of dependancy and then do nothing about it. So they are constantly restricted on where they can and cannot travel to, unless their DH is there to drive them.

I don't buy the safety angle, I make sure I leave early if I am travelling far and take all sensible precautions. I hate the 'oh I can't do that, DH has to do it for me' mentality, it does women as a whole no favours at all.

And of course I am not talking about women with physical or mental difficulties that means they genuinely can't drive, that's a totally different thing altogether.

Ooh another one. When I'd just passed, one of my first boyfriends used to do the imaginary brake thing and criticise for silly things like not waving to thank other drivers.
I became a much better driver when I didn't have him making me nervous from the passenger seat, but if he'd stuck around much longer, my confidence could have been severely dented.

[quote julieca]@Triffid1 I think they are all great points. And yes motorway driving, driving at night, driving in heavy rain and in busy city centres are all scary when you first pass. But I get your point that men are encouraged by society to face their fears and get over them, so do it anyway. And the more you do it, the easier it becomes.
I also accept that men are more likely to be overconfident with driving.
I do hope women being so afraid does die out though. I see it limiting some women's lives. Feeling afraid and doing it anyway makes a big difference to your life.[/quote]
The thing is that none of this was true for me and I know lots and lots of women who are perfectly good drivers. It's just that it's more likely to be women who gets here ridiculous ideas almost forced into them.

Interestingly, while I'm not sure either of my parents would define themselves as feminists, when I look back on my upbringing, I realise that a huge part of my feminism comes from having parents who (mostly) did not enforce gender stereotypes on us. Including with driving - it was a standard joke in my siblings and my friendship circles that our dad was the toughest of all the parental driving instructors, and it didn't matter if you were a girl or a boy - you would get the same treatment either way (he also taught at least one friend of each of his children to drive, girls and boys!).

So many of my friends and family won't and in each and every case they have a DH who does it all for them. They put themselves in this position.of dependancy and then do nothing about it. So they are constantly restricted on where they can and cannot travel to, unless their DH is there to drive them.

I did this with towing a caravan, never with driving, but I can see how it can become a co- dependent thing if the man is doing subtle things to undermine women's confidence. In my experience when asked for a bit of support, they can make things seem harder than it is.

My husband avoids driving at night and hates driving to new places.
I love driving full stop. I offer to do all the driving and my husband is happy to be my passenger. I suffer from god awful anxiety but driving just really relaxes me. I also really love driving my car as she's a beast.
All the women in my family are far more confident drivers than the men. They usually pass their driving tests first too.

@VanGoghsDog

I'm a woman who doesn't get anxious about driving.

However, I also have astigmatism and it's news to me that this makes driving unsafe, so maybe now I do have anxiety! Where did you get that idea?

Same here.

Waves at fellow lady towers!

Another thought: when I became a mother I suddenly became much more cautious about... everything. It was suddenly very important to me to stay alive because I had a child. I also developed a bit of vertigo that I'd previously not had: I was getting dizzy walking up mountains I'd been up before with no problems. Perhaps other mothers have something similar?

It didn't make me wary of driving (or towing!) though, but it did affect other things.

Also agree with a PP that women can be undermined and made reluctant by arrogant and mansplaining men.
DH tells me that there's a tricky bend ahead; I don't do the same to him. He gave me advice on how to manoeuvre a canal boat through a tunnel, having only done the same amount of canal boating as me! He gets a resounding "fuck off" in such situations, but it could easily chip away at someone's confidence in their own capabilities.

I wonder if there's a link to the phenomenon where a woman when applying for a job feels the need to meet 100% of the criteria and a man only whateverlower% it is. So to do something as responsible as driving, women feel the need to be shit hot at it, whereas men don't feel the same pressure/think they're a more skilled driver than they actually are/aren't arsed and will do it anyway. And from this get a lot more practice.

@Triffid1 sounds like they were great parents.
You see if I am honest I was very unconfident about driving when I passed. But I was very much raised with the idea that you have to keep doing things, and the fear will go. And unless they are stupid things to do, I find that is very true.
I understand that some things do make people more anxious, but I guess because of upbringing some people, and it does seem to be more women, don't push themselves and become confident with things like driving. And I do see how it restricts women.

@TheFreaksShallInheritTheEarth

Also agree with a PP that women can be undermined and made reluctant by arrogant and mansplaining men. DH tells me that there's a tricky bend ahead; I don't do the same to him. He gave me advice on how to manoeuvre a canal boat through a tunnel, having only done the same amount of canal boating as me! He gets a resounding "fuck off" in such situations, but it could easily chip away at someone's confidence in their own capabilities.

That sounds very undermining.

I know far more men than women who refuse to drive. Some can but won’t, others won’t even learn.

I'd start by looking at the partners or ex partners of those women. Do they insist on driving all the time? Or critical when she's driving?
I wonder how many women who are anxious drivers are anxious drivers because they've had too much of a bloke in the passenger seat barking instructions and criticisms.

I think sometimes people (men and women) in relationships just decide to opt out of driving because maybe they don't like it that much, and leave it to their partner to do. Then they get out of practice.

For example, my grandma decided when she was about 30 that she didn't like driving so my grandad just had to do ALL the driving (except nipping to the shop) for the next 50 years! I don't know how she got away with it to be honest! You can just lump that responsibility on a partner forever, and I certainly wouldn't put up with it!

When you're single you absolutely don't have that luxury- you drive it yourself or you don't go!

I have a touring caravan. I am the only woman I have ever seen towing; it's always the male partner! So there seems to be some reluctance about towing, too.*
I'm surprised at this. My mum was towing her caravan ( with a large volvo) in the late 70s. We used to go to a caravan site for several weeks ( which I hated) and meet up with her female friends who also towed. Most of the husbands did shift work so would come to the site for a couple of days before going back to work. Most of the women were teachers so were able to stay there all summer.