6 year old DS weeping non stop for up to an hour

[Eastie77Returns]

I’m starting to wonder if something is wrong. DS (6) is bright, generally a happy lovely boy. However he frequently - I would say 2/3 times a week - dissolves into tears, cries uncontrollably for anything up to an hour and refuses point blank to communicate and say what is wrong. This has been going on for a while and my patience is now really wearing thin.

He is currently in the kitchen with DP and has been crying for about 45 mins but will not speak. In fairness I suppose there was a ‘trigger’ this evening. DP picked him up from the childminder and DS then fell asleep soon after arriving home. DP then woke him up when dinner was ready and he has been crying since so I get that he may be tired. However he is not a toddler and is capable of speaking and instead is just hysterically crying. It’s so wearing. He must be exhausted (we tried to put him back to bed) and I’m just pissed off now. I was out with DD at Brownies and if I was here I would have kept him awake to eat dinner but DP parents differently so here we are…

Anyway, there are plenty of other times when tiredness is not a factor and we get the same behaviour. Sometimes after crying for an hour he will suddenly stop and reveal what’s wrong. It’s usually something like his fork fell on the floor, I gave him the wrong coloured socks.

Thank you if you’ve got this far. Does anyone with an older child recognise this behaviour? Fully expect this with a toddler but I find it frustrating with a 6 year old! He has never behaved like this with his CM or at school (both describe him as an angel)

Bed time is really not the time to play rough, exciting games with an already tired child.
Would your DH read some parenting and child development literature? I think it would be a good idea.

It sounds like you have a DH problem. What on earth possessed him to wake a clearly exhausted, sleeping child? No wonder your DS was crying and upset and unable to explain why he was so upset.

Bedtime routines need to be calm and quiet, not filled with rambunctious games, rough-housing and play. If you have to send him to the childminders, have her feed him dinner every night, then you can get him home and have a quiet hour or so before bed. That could involve a nice bath, some stories, maybe some reading (him to you) and aim for a 7pm bedtime.

I know it's really tough when you miss out on so much time with your DC due to work, but his sleep must come first.

I think it's also important to get rid of any stimulating after school activities (eg. swimming, making him sit around while his sister does Brownies) if possible.

I don’t want to seem stubborn regarding swimming but I really don’t want to stop that until he is able to swim. I think the older he gets the harder it will be for him to learn and 6 is already on the late side. I could move it to the weekend but as mentioned he already has football then and I’m trying to keep at least weekend day completely free of any scheduled activities. His lesson is at 5pm. Is that really particularly late? Half his class are just leaving the after school club at that time. I will stop taking him to wait with me at DD’s swimming lesson on Friday (DP will pick him up from school).

Today I shut my laptop at 4pm and picked them up early. Dinner at 5.30 and he is now in bed. I can see it makes a difference.

And yes, DP needs parenting guidance as he just seems to lack common sense some of the time. Our childminder has signposted parenting courses. He also doesn’t seem to grasp that he cannot replicate his childhood in a small Southern Europe town here. He grew up in a place where kids played out until any given time, grandparents were on hand to feed kids and bedtime at 10pm was not unusual.

I don’t want to seem stubborn regarding swimming but I really don’t want to stop that until he is able to swim. I think the older he gets the harder it will be for him to learn and 6 is already on the late side. I could move it to the weekend but as mentioned he already has football then and I’m trying to keep at least weekend day completely free of any scheduled activities. His lesson is at 5pm. Is that really particularly late? Half his class are just leaving the after school club at that time. I will stop taking him to wait with me at DD’s swimming lesson on Friday (DP will pick him up from school).

I don't think it matters what other DC are doing - yours is struggling after a long day and it's having a negative impact on his behaviour, so something has to change. It might not have to be swimming if you can jiggle everything else around, but for many people, exercise too close to bed is counter-productive as they end up wired rather than tired.

I might have missed you saying anything about it before, but in Southern Europe where children stay up with all their family they often have a middle of the day break, and a 6 year old might have a sleep then as well as lots of family/granny home time.

Well done OP for taking onboard what so many have suggested.
How about stopping the football instead? He really is very young to have after school activities when he's finding it all too much.
You could always take a break for six months or a year? Or schedule an intensive swimming course in the summer?

You sound like you are talking about my boy .... he's older now, but those hours of sobbing 😭 yes it was tiredness, hunger and too much stimulation.
I'm the same , I just need an hour to sit on my own and gather my thoughts. And eat and relax. He's very sporty and fit, but when at home he wants to just be on his own doing what ever.. no guiding, adults, talking or much interaction.

My other son is the exact opposite... needs wearing out and not an alone time kind of kid. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I'm autistic and this definitely reminds me of how I was when I was younger, everything at school was so overwhelming for me that I'd often just crash after school with exhaustion and also cry a lot to get it all out of my system.

"DP is from a country where it is common for kids to go to bed at 10pm or later so it’s been an uphill struggle getting him on board with putting DC to bed early."

In most countries where children go to bed late, they have a nap after lunch. Here in the U.K. children drop their naps before starting school, but they need earlier nights.

"I have mentioned my concerns to CM btw. She rolled her eyes and said she knows a child on the spectrum when she sees one and DS is fine."
She rolled her eyes? How unprofessional. What qualifications does she have in child psychology? She can't possibly declare that DS is fine. He might be neurotypical and he might have autism. If your childminder knew anything about autism she'd know that every autistic child is different and given that some are good at masking, it wouldn't always be obvious in her setting.

If I were you I'd do two things.

1. Ask for a call/meeting with DS's teacher to discuss your concerns about his well being.
2. Try and reach some kind of agreement with DP. It sounds as if this will be difficult. Would he get involved in seeking professional advice on it with you? Just thinking if he's anything like ~most men~ my DH, he could be more inclined to listen if it's coming from someone else and not you!

"I could move it to the weekend but as mentioned he already has football then and I’m trying to keep at least weekend day completely free of any scheduled activities."

What's so essential about football? Just stop that until he's learned to swim and then you can stop swimming and restart football.

There are 5 school days a week, maybe you and DP could organise yourselves to take turns to collect him at 5pm every day?

I think it’s highly unlikely you will be able to judge if the child is autistic while he is being stretched to this extent. My dh is also from a culture where children are welcome to stay up late. It would be sensible to try giving him a more restful week for a couple of weeks as he is displaying signs of exhaustion to the point that you are wondering if he has a neurological disorder. Try it and then when you have a better handle on who he is rested, you can make a plan.

Why do you think that 6 is old to learn to swim?

Can all his friends swim?

Do you want him to be able to swim before he has lessons at school?

Could he do a course everyday for a couple of weeks in the holidays?

You know re the swimming - many will tell you the younger the better but I don’t know if that’s true. My oldest didn’t start learning till about 7 or 8 years old (just couldn’t afford lessons before) when I taught him at the pool. My younger kids went to all the ‘baby shark swim’ type things from about age 2.

Now they can all swim to a similar level. DD6 had her first swimming lesson age 6months and realistically didn’t progress any faster for it.

I think weekly lessons are really good for some kids but I don’t think they are always best at a young age for every child.

Also, why did your DH not heat up his dinner? He left a hungry child to fall asleep until you got home when you’d already left the food for him to heat up. Sounds a bit useless to be honest.

Why is swimming so important to you and why does it have to be now?

Is the football club something he wants to do?

You need to remember he's a 6 yo kid that 1.can't yet fully recognise or regulate his emotions and 2. Doesn't get enough time to just be,to be a kid, to relax and chill and have some quiet in his routine.

Some children thrive in the hustle and bustle, some really (desperately so) need a real break.

And him falling asleep before dinner is sending you a big ,clear message. It's not about eating earlier or keeping him awake till dinner at all costs. He's tired,he needs the downtime.

If you are working from home , could he not come straight home after school and chill on the sofa with cbeebies? Even if only a couple of days a week?

I would stop everything except school. Get him back into a clear routine where he is no longer tired and then reintroduce out of school activities one by one.

He's totally out of balance and you need to reset.

He's a really unhappy little boy right now and he needs you to listen

My lovely easy going happy child used to turn into a demon if she'd fallen asleep outside her usual bedtime (ie in car on way back from childminders) and was then woken up to eat - crying, jumping up and down in anger the hole schbang. She's now 7 and grown out of it. She loves her sleep and was just exhausted.

This is completely normal behaviour for an exhausted 6 year old. I would also cut out the football and swimming. Could your partner take DD swimming on Fridays? It's right at the end of a very long week, so probably not great for your DS to be tagging along.

I did WFH for a while when the children were small, and I used to stop work at school pick-up time (which was 4pm in their case), and then spend 3 hours or so with them just at home, doing nothing at all, really, other than having their supper and getting ready for bed (bath, stories etc). I would then work from 8-11ish. It wasn't ideal, but better for the children. Would something like this be a possible way for one of you to work? My DC did have swimming lessons, early on Saturday afternoons, but it was the only thing they did at that age.

I'm afraid you also have to have a serious conversation with your husband. His way is fine for a child who's having a siesta for a couple of hours after lunch every day, but not for a child who's having emotional and physical demands made on them the whole time.

Possibly he is being bullied a bit at the child minders. Emphasis on a bit! If there's a lot of kids there and presumably her own too then there's a different dynamic to home. Being in a home environment with pseudo older siblings is sometimes stressful.

My kids loved their CM and have remained friends with her children years after she stopped being their CM but there were definitely days they were jealous they could not go upstairs to their rooms and check out of the mayhem.

It's good he's gotten an earlier night. The Autumn /Winter term is the longest one, every teacher will tell you it goes on forever. It must feel doubly long for a child who spent a large portion of reception at home? And presumably missed a large chunk of nursery too?

I'm sure your DH had an idyllic childhood and I've seen firsthand a family of mixed heritage where this has been an issue. As far as I can see kids this age in the Med often have a proper pre dinner nap? All I can say is in a blink and you'll miss it way, he'll be showering himself and joining you for dinner at 7 and you'll both get to spend time with him and thinking wistfully of 7pm bedtimes when you are being regaled on the rules of minecraft 😂

Could you maybe look into finding a student or retired person to do school pick up and a couple of hours childcare at your house instead of using the childminder? Child minder sounds a bit dismissive and he might be much happier and more relaxed in his own space.

And do honestly think some more about the swimming - I had the same thing in my head about how he had to learn to swim first but in the end we stopped the lessons here and there for a few months at a time for various reasons and it didn’t make any difference at all. You’re saying 5pm isn’t a late lesson, but you have an unhappy exhausted child who needs something to change. Most kids are useless at swimming until age 8 or so, and then they suddenly get it. I don’t think they’re physically developed enough before then to be able to do it properly so all the lessons before that stage could just be a waste of time and money.

He enjoys football and as for swimming, well I think it’s an essential life saving skill rather than a nice to have. Once he can swim I’d be happy to stop. I’ve looked into week long intensive lessons. Realistically the next window for this would be half term or Easter next year. Football is 60 mins on Saturday and swimming 30 mins mid week. I honestly don’t think 90 mins across the week is overwhelming him.

I do agree the after school meal and bedtime routine needs to change. but I can’t just stop work at 3pm every day to collect him (school is a 25-30min walk). Yes, I’m WFH which does allow for some flexibility but I lead a team in a tech company and there are days I have to be on calls with the US etc at that time. I will pick him up twice a week from school from next week onwards and DP can do one day so he will only be at the childminders twice a week. It’s the best I can do at the moment..

I also don’t agree that he’s a very unhappy child generally. Obviously the crying episodes point to an issue. Whether it’s just tiredness and my planned changes to his routine help resolve this or something else also is going on and he is not NT remains to be seen. But outside of those episodes he is a happy and affectionate little boy.

Thank you everyone for the advice, it has been very helpful.

@reader12 sorry cross posted with you so I’m not dismissing what you wrote re the swimming. Interesting point about the age/ability aspect. I’m not sure I agree that lessons before the age of 8 are a waste of time but I take your point.

We are currently renting a tiny flat as we are in the process of buying a house. It would be difficult to have someone doing childcare here whilst I’m working.

@TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams I’m simultaneously dreading and looking forward to DS getting older!

I honestly don’t think 90 mins across the week is overwhelming him

Maybe not on its own, but that's 90 minutes on top of of 11/12 hour days in school and childcare five days a week. That's a lot for such a small child.

Extra curricular activities are the obvious things to cut out if he's exhausted - he doesn't need football or swimming lessons. He can play football for fun and swimming can be an activity you do as a family instead.