6 year old DS weeping non stop for up to an hour

[Eastie77Returns]

I’m starting to wonder if something is wrong. DS (6) is bright, generally a happy lovely boy. However he frequently - I would say 2/3 times a week - dissolves into tears, cries uncontrollably for anything up to an hour and refuses point blank to communicate and say what is wrong. This has been going on for a while and my patience is now really wearing thin.

He is currently in the kitchen with DP and has been crying for about 45 mins but will not speak. In fairness I suppose there was a ‘trigger’ this evening. DP picked him up from the childminder and DS then fell asleep soon after arriving home. DP then woke him up when dinner was ready and he has been crying since so I get that he may be tired. However he is not a toddler and is capable of speaking and instead is just hysterically crying. It’s so wearing. He must be exhausted (we tried to put him back to bed) and I’m just pissed off now. I was out with DD at Brownies and if I was here I would have kept him awake to eat dinner but DP parents differently so here we are…

Anyway, there are plenty of other times when tiredness is not a factor and we get the same behaviour. Sometimes after crying for an hour he will suddenly stop and reveal what’s wrong. It’s usually something like his fork fell on the floor, I gave him the wrong coloured socks.

Thank you if you’ve got this far. Does anyone with an older child recognise this behaviour? Fully expect this with a toddler but I find it frustrating with a 6 year old! He has never behaved like this with his CM or at school (both describe him as an angel)

Only problem with earlier bed is it gives him even less time with his parents.

Some adults don't have days that long!

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's just exhausted.

Your patience is really wearing thin, you find him wearing, you’re pissed off and frustrated….

He’s 6 for Christ’s sake! He doesn’t need a valid reason for all of his emotions nor be able to verbalise them yet.

I suggest you try to show him some more tenderness and kindness as your obvious disdain for him is going to make him even more upset. It’s possible he already knows he’s not going to get reassurance and comfort from you now which is triggering the enduring distress.

In which case could you maybe make him a safe place he can retreat to to soothe himself - maybe a corner of his room with his teddies and a weighted blanket or soft fleece.

@Coronawireless

Only problem with earlier bed is it gives him even less time with his parents.

Yes and less downtime in his own home, his own space.

@Coronawireless

Only problem with earlier bed is it gives him even less time with his parents.

I know a couple of people whose children have later bedtimes for this reason. But its counter productive when the children are exhausted.

Awh we pet, sounds like he's building everything up over the day and it's all coming out when he's in his "safe" place. Is he happy at cm? My usually very happy Ds was miserable at his previous daycare and would have been quite emotional with no explanation as to why...it took me to look at the pattern of behaviour to find the connection..

I recognise this. DD is not on the spectrum but we saw this a lot at that age. Careful food and routine management keeps her on an even keel but if she runs out of food combined with tiredness all bets are off.

She has a very fast metabolism and cannot manage on standard food intake for a child. It has to be whole grain toast and the doorstop home made type, not Hovis, jumbo oats porridge, whole meal pasta, muesli bars etc.
As she's gotten older she's starting to recognise when she needs to eat something and articulate it but meals need to be prompt, on schedule and filling. She needs more sleep than her peers, it doesn't take a lot to throw her off. She is sweetness and frickin' light when she's had a decent meal though.
Maybe try it for a week and see how you get on?
At six, my two had a hot kids tea/dinner within ten mins of getting in (beans on toast, quick pasta (batch cooked sauce) etc. and we ate later when they were bathed and in bed. If we could make something that could be used the next day for them all the better. Bed by 7, story and lights out. Nice family lunches on the weekend to spend some time with them but mostly stuck to the routine during term time. Meals with a tired child of that age are mostly relentless.
With Covid as well this year must be shattering for kids that age? They've had so little socialisation in a school environment but it's great he's doing well academically.

Open up a dialogue with the teacher ASAP. The teacher will know if he’s tired or having problems with friends, you’re just guessing without this conversation. I had concerns with my Yr1 DD over anxiety and I managed to speak to the teacher that same day.

Well something is obviously wrong and you need to find out what.

Maybe he is scared to tell you or having trouble communicating what the problem is. For instance if he has a headache, kids don’t say that, they normally say their head feels fluffy or fuzzy or something along those lines.

Maybe he his having trouble at school but thinks you will tell him off.

It could be anything- but your patience I would say is paramount here.

We've also found that a mid week "early bedtime" on a Wednesday seems to help get everyone refreshed for Thursday/Friday. My kids are late primary school now and it's still an issue but nowhere near as bad as when they were 5/6/7

It is hard when you are both working and it all feels like a treadmill but you can make it up to him at the weekend if you get other stuff done midweek while he is asleep.

Bless him, he sounds utterly shattered.

@SmellyOldOwls

He sounds knackered and he's just getting overwhelmed. Probably starving this evening too. You say this has happened when unrelated to tiredness or hunger, but do you actually know that or are you just presuming? When he wants to cry don't lose patience or try to force him to talk. Just sit with him and hold him and love him. He's still very young.

Agree also, there's a window for food with some children

You mention you offered food but he kept crying

Sometimes in a little tummy, if you miss the slot of being hungry and move on to being upset, they're too upset to eat till they calm down.

So I'd try and identify the food window. Also check if he eats enough at CM.

Can swimming be done at weekends?

Please don't leap to suspecting there is anything wrong. He is tired! That's an incredibly long day for a little one.
If he's quiet and shy then he won't ever relax at school or CM so he can't be himself until he gets home.
At that age mine were up at 8am and in bed at 7pm latest.
I bet he doesn't do this in school holidays or do you send him to CM for 10 hours?
He isn't getting nearly enough sleep and he needsmore time at home in his own space.

Why not try to ask him why he is sad at a point when he isn’t sad, see if it’s easier for him to communicate then. Maybe he is just experiencing feelings that feel too big for his body and crying is the only way to get it out and make the feeling smaller.

If you’ve asked him if he is hungry and he said no, why would you then keep asking him the same question? Sounds frustrating for him, like your not listening!

All children are different. If he is in a good routine, getting enough sleep etc then I’m sure he will grow out of these tantrums. I wouldn’t react too much. Let him cry it out. Talk to him when once he has stopped and calmed down.

hi OP, as several PPs have suggested it's worth considering if he's autistic. and look up:
autistic meltdown
autistic shutdown
spoon theory
Ann Memmott is rather brilliant at explaining to neurotypical people what the world is like for many autistic people (though obviously each person has their own separate needs) so a wander around her blog is always good:

annsautism.blogspot.com/2018/02/autism-and-spoon-theory.html?m=1

Pete Wharmby (on twitter and linkedin, Ann is on twitter too) does some great threads on things that are hard for autistic children, especially at school.

btw if your DS isn't talking while he's crying it's most likely b/c he actually physically can't when he's in shutdown / meltdown, so please go very gently on him and just give him love and support - there will be time to try to talk to him to work out what's wrong afterwards.

i'd also suggest opening lines of communication as much as possible at school. my DS is super bright and very good at expressing himself generally but really struggles to talk about things that are upsetting him, i think sometimes it takes him a while to work out what's upsetting him which i think is quite usual for autistic people.

My DD at that age used to have dinner at 5 or 5.30, with supper at bedtime as well. It's hard to say what is causing the crying, but he does sound hungry and tired to me, hope you can find something to help OP.

I have to say 6 was the hardest year for my son. Read your 6 year old by L Bates Amaes. It was written over 30 years ago, she's a child psychologist but shines a light on 6 year old behaviour. You can look at the reviews on amazon to see how challenging many 6 years olds can be. Adult teeth come in at 6 and many start falling out so it's a tough developmental year. Look after yourself as well. Kids at this age cannot regulate their emotions so I made a real effort then to regulate mine. X

Dd is 7yo and in bed asleep for 7.30pm, we can tell she's ready to start settling down from about 6pm. She gets overwhelmed very easily after 6pm, small things can make her giggle hysterically or burst into tears or a rage for no good reason.

I know it's crap losing the evening with your kid, until covid and WFH happened we would drop DD at nursery at 8am, pick her up at 5.45pm and basically just come home and get her ready for bed. It felt horrible and like we were missing out on so much, but it was not good for her to be overtired.

A little suggestion OP- try a worry monster it's a little, colourful monster with a zipped mouth: the child writes or tells someone to write for them a worry or fear; it's put in the monster, zipped up; in the morning the worry note is gone and, hopefully, the worry.

It really worked for DS. He didn't cry but had worries 'in my head' at that age. We had one for school we handed in and one for home. DS has ASD but plenty other neuro-typical kids use them. It's worth a shot.

Not many people react very well from being woken during a deeper sleep phase. My friend is from a country where kids are up all hours and they keep them up but there is ALWAYS an hour of screaming before bed. Plus most kids that are up until 10pm aren't leaving the house at just after 7am. He is almost doing 12 hours out the house.

Could you try a few weeks of getting him straight off to bed on Mon/tues. He won't be hungry if he's had school dinner and a high tea. Let him bank some sleep.

Just to compare my DS is almost 5 and he is in bed from 7pm until 7 and not out the house until nearly 9 and home at 3. He had a weekend of not going to bed until an hour later and early mornings and he was so affected that his teacher spoke to me because he hadn't concentrated on anything at school the whole day.

Even if there are some concerns about his social skills etc. He could still be tired so maybe worth exploring first. And maybe another reason why he might be more comfortable with a routine.

Also school could maybe assist with helping him work through his crying? My DS will not settle if I hug him or leave him but if I encourage him to deep breathe or count to 10 slowly he is able to be comforted much easier.

It sounds like it could be hunger and tiredness combined. Could the CM feed him a full meal so you can just do quick bath and bed when he gets home? Maybe something frozen that she can just chuck in oven/microwave if she doesn’t want to cook?

My DS gets a bit like like this when he’s hungry, once it gets past a certain point he can’t recognise it as hunger at all, it’s just total despair and wretchedness and asking if he’s hungry makes it 100 times worse. When I realise it’s happening I have to subtly leave some simple food near him and then not watch or say anything while he eats it otherwise he won’t eat it out of stubbornness.

As soon as the first few bites go down it’s like a flicking a switch, he would smile, relax & say actually mummy I think I’m just really hungry! It was often worse after he’d spent a day with grandparents- he’s just not very food oriented and would rather play than eat, and they don’t eat much so basically didn’t feed him enough, and then as soon as I got home he’d have a massive meltdown from being ravenously hungry and overstimulated. Sharing in case your situation might be similar.

If there is possible ASD and masking then he will need even more down time at home and may find such a long day and the childminder just too much.

@Eastie77Returns

He gets up around 7.15, school starts at 8.45. His childminder picks him up at 3.30 Mon-Thurs and then he is collected by either me or DP sometime between 5.30 - 6pm. On Wednesdays he attends swimming 5.45 - 6.15. Bedtime is usually by 8 - 8.30.

Bed by 7pm doesn’t seem feasible at the moment but I will look into shortening my working day to try and make that work. I WFH and am trapped on calls all day, it’s difficult to wrap up earlier than 5pm.

DP is from a country where it is common for kids to go to bed at 10pm or later so it’s been an uphill struggle getting him on board with putting DC to bed early.

Blimey OP - I'm exhausted just reading that schedule. That's way too much for a six year old child - way too much.

If you can't cut your hours then get rid of swimming - he doesn't need any after school activities on top of going to the childminders.

I would be doing 6pm home - dinner or a snack - bath - bed by 7pm. I'm really not surprised he's crying if he's on the go for nearly thirteen hours a day.

@Coronawireless

Only problem with earlier bed is it gives him even less time with his parents.

Unfortunately that's life when you work full time and have young children.