6 year old DS weeping non stop for up to an hour

[Eastie77Returns]

I’m starting to wonder if something is wrong. DS (6) is bright, generally a happy lovely boy. However he frequently - I would say 2/3 times a week - dissolves into tears, cries uncontrollably for anything up to an hour and refuses point blank to communicate and say what is wrong. This has been going on for a while and my patience is now really wearing thin.

He is currently in the kitchen with DP and has been crying for about 45 mins but will not speak. In fairness I suppose there was a ‘trigger’ this evening. DP picked him up from the childminder and DS then fell asleep soon after arriving home. DP then woke him up when dinner was ready and he has been crying since so I get that he may be tired. However he is not a toddler and is capable of speaking and instead is just hysterically crying. It’s so wearing. He must be exhausted (we tried to put him back to bed) and I’m just pissed off now. I was out with DD at Brownies and if I was here I would have kept him awake to eat dinner but DP parents differently so here we are…

Anyway, there are plenty of other times when tiredness is not a factor and we get the same behaviour. Sometimes after crying for an hour he will suddenly stop and reveal what’s wrong. It’s usually something like his fork fell on the floor, I gave him the wrong coloured socks.

Thank you if you’ve got this far. Does anyone with an older child recognise this behaviour? Fully expect this with a toddler but I find it frustrating with a 6 year old! He has never behaved like this with his CM or at school (both describe him as an angel)

I'm wondering if the transition from Reception to Y1 has triggered it. Along with exhaustion.
There is a huge difference between expectations in R and Y1, sadly. I have taught in both and seen it so much.
Couple that with going to the childminders who may have different rules to you and school, that three lots of different expectations already.
He's already missed a lot as PP said due to lockdown.

I would definitely gently dig (there might be someone mean at the CMS).

But if he's not a massive communicator of his emotions it sounds like he's holding it together all day and then exploding when he sees his Mummy. Good luck, poor wee thing.

The poor soul sounds exhausted, not enough sleep, not enough down time doing his own thing and long days having to be 'good' at school/childminder.

It's so difficult when you both have to work full time but is there any way you can alter your hours to enable an earlier finish to allow him to come home from school and chill out, then you pick up a couple of hours in the evening? Exhausting for you but maybe better for him whilst he's so young. I say 'you' meaning you and DP.

Dd and her friend were bullied in Reception. It was the other Mum who found out. The school didn’t tell either of us, despite talking to all the Year 2 classes about it. Dd was having night terror dreams and was very agitated and bad tempered after school. We had thought she was just overtired. I would double check regarding bullying.

Feel for you OP, it’s not easy. How was he during lockdown and home schooling? Lots of young kids loved being at home (I know mine did) without the daily rush of school runs and activities. This term is tiring for all of them as it’s the longest and toughest term and they haven’t had a normal autumn term since 2019.
You mentioned you WFH, is there any way you could trial finishing up earlier so that you can eat earlier and get him to bed early, and then log on for an hour or two in the night? He must be absolutely and utterly exhausted, whether or not he has any additional needs. My son was 6 last year and he slept 7:30pm-7am. That’s asleep from 7:30pm, in bed from 7pm with quiet reading time. He couldn’t cope with less than 11-12 hours sleep. They are non stop all day at that age, learning and growing and exploring - both physically and mentally. Does your son have any screen time in the evenings? His quality of sleep might also need to be considered, a rushed evening might not be setting him up for a decent nights sleep. How is he at the weekend? Does he catch up on sleep at all? Though it’s all about the routine at that age, his bedtime really needs to be much the same every night. Good luck - you are getting lots of great advice on the thread.

Is there anything he "gets out" from crying.just wonder,if it is a behaviour pattern...??

I imagine he "gets" a release from his unregulated emotion... poor love.

He sounds truly exhausted.

I lived in a country where bedtime for children was commonly 9pm. Because of this though, school had a long nap in the afternoon, and no school on Wednesday afternoon. Ask DP if he had a nap at school when he was growing up. I bet he did. Your son doesn't, so DP needs to accept and facilitate an earlier bedtime.

My children were similar to this - well-behaved at school and CM but tired of keeping up the facade and would just crumble when at home.

I noticed with my son that if he ate a lot between 4 to 5pm then that meant he was tired and preparing for sleep so I'd recommend you send more food to the CM so he has his dinner there and can go straight into bedtime routine when you come in at 5:30.
He sounds overwhelmed by his day.
Good luck OP

if he's not a massive communicator of his emotions it sounds like he's holding it together all day and then exploding when he sees his Mummy.

It's worth investigating whether he has well masked autism as this is a very common scenario for those children.

Many children with ASC also struggle to process their own emotions so have no chance of explaining them when they become overwhelming.

Look into other common aspects of ASC, e.g. sensory sensitivities, anxiety, needing a predictable and stable routine, rigid thinking.

@Driposaurus

My five year old (Year 1)will do this. He always has, and is suspect he has something that might merit a diagnosis one day.

He has never done it at school (where he is doing very well) or nursery before then. But a little request can turn into an hour meltdown. And there’s little that can be done to stop it when it starts - it’s almost like he needs to do it and he has to burn himself out. Last week’s was because I wanted to try him a tiny taste of a vegetable on his plate he had eaten before before he had dessert. After an hour he calmed down, ate the vegetable, and had the dessert.

In the past eighteen months he has found a favourite toy, and we’ve got a weighted blanket. Both of those things can comfort him during the episode, but doesn’t seem to stop it.

Good luck…

This is exactly what my 6 year old is like. OP I totally get what you are describing because we have it here too, although it's more like what I would describe as a tantrum (I also have a two and a four year old, so am quite the expert in those...). It has really increased over the past year and became quite a problem until about a month ago.

In the last month we have kept note of when it happens and there are definite triggers - too much sugar is a definite one, getting woken up is another, as is generally being tired. Not getting enough attention is another so we have made a real concerted effort to focus on him, which can be hard with two other little kids, but we do have some support from PILS so have been able to get a bit of time with him on his own here and there. Sticking to routine is also really really important to him - so no spontaneous trips to the shops or park or whatever where he can feel blindsided. These things have all helped a bit and things have improved, although we still feel we are walking on eggshells with him.

I have phoned the GP and the school and both seemed to think it is anxiety related, because he did have some very anxious behaviours when he was at nursery too, but generally he's doing very well at school and they said he's basically an angel. GP basically wasn't very interested because there were no issues at school. So it was a bit of a dead end. I don't think he is autistic, he just doesn't have any of the traditional signs, but he's 'different' to my other children and has been from a young age. It's hard to describe really.

Anyway, I know what you mean completely.

OP, I know it's really hard with your schedule and work, but 8.30 is too late for a 6 yr old in Y1. Mine are older now, but I remember they were in bed at 6 when they were babies, and 7 when they were young and at school. I used to give them "children's tea" after school (so they would eat at 5ish, and XH and I would eat later). Then a bit of playing while I cleared up and got 'adult' dinner ready to put in the oven, and then into bath, stories, weetabix with warm milk if they were still hungry, teeth, cuddles, bed, and lights off by 7.

When they were tired or hungry - especially with DC1 - anything could become a trigger for a very long cry. Forks etc would be the typical 'reason'. The real reason was either tiredness or hunger, coupled quite often with having to be really well behaved all day at school.

@Eastie77Returns

In answer to questions: He is in Y1. I’ve always assumed he was fine at school as he is happy to go in but I will check with his teacher as so many of you have mentioned this. Bullying didn’t even occur to me:( Last parents evening was approximately 5 minutes and his teacher just said all is fine. I know he is extremely quiet in class (was also mentioned by nursery and Reception) and is generally very shy and non communicative with people. His eye contact is poor and he speaks in a fairly flat, staccato voice if asked a direct question. On the other hand he is chatty and effusive with people he knows well.

Yes, DP is his dad.

His day is quite long Mon-Thurs. On Fridays I pick him up from school although he does have to tag along while DD goes swimming until 5.30pm.

Maybe he is just extremely tired. I don’t know how to shorten his days, DP and I both work FT and rely on our CM to do the school pick up.

Sorry to say this but this is all VERY similar to my DS who is 5.5 and in the process of diagnosed with ASD currently.

Following with interest. DS2 (6) is having some epic screaming fits at the moment. For him, they mostly seem to be around getting out of the house in the morning, and over breakfast ("I want milk with my muesli! I don't want milk, I want yogurt! I didn't want yogurt, how dare you put it on my muesli! I want berries! Not heated up like yesterday, I want them frozen!"etc etc) Tricky, because we lift share, and have to be out of the house at a certain time.

I'm autistic and remember having massive, prolonged screaming fits around the age of 7, and I keep wondering about DS...

Also just to say my son goes to bed at 7pm at this age they NEED the opportunity to sleep for 11/12 hours if they need it.

I'm another one wondering if it's ASD as my son was exactly the same and has just been diagnosed with autism. Crying and being unable to stop is his version of a meltdown and happens when he's feeling overwhelmed. I know it's really hard juggling everything while working - I'm in the same boat but I wonder if there is anything the school or the childminder could do to reduce stresses on him. So often the childminders might be quite busy or hectic after school which causes sensory overload, after a day of it building up at school. What he might need is to shut himself away or bury himself under a blanket and just watch a video on a tablet or something. That's what my son often needs but all children have different sensory needs. My son likes to cocoon himself away when feeling overwhelmed. I'd definitely raise it with the childminder and school to see if they can put things in place to help.

My oldest used to get like this when he was younger. Once he hit high school he just started taking himself to bed after school and getting up for his tea (or not). He’s neuro divergent and just gets overwhelmed.
I always found feeding him helped. When he was little I always had a stash of crumpets, cereal, tins of soup, fruit loaf etc, so I could rustle him up a quick something in 5 mins flat.
He hasn’t had a meltdown for a while now (thankfully) but as an older teen a brew always grounds him. He and I recognise when he’s bubbling.

I did wonder ASD from your post - the flat voice and keeping himself to himself stood out from your post. He may be or he may not be, but I’d be working at cutting down the steps between bedtime as much as you can. Poor chap sounds overwhelmed.

It's all too easy to start diagnosing autism when a child goes through a difficult phase.
My DS was exactly the same at that age. Perfectly behaved at school and then an hour of screaming and crying when he got home (at 4pm not 6 or 7).
We brought his bedtime forward from 7 to 6pm and it made a huge difference.

I have to agree with the majority that he is eating too late, and probably going to bed too late, with a very long day.

I'm humming and hahing over the late bedtime because my two have ALWAYS gone to bed around 8:30/9pm - that was their natural rhythm and if I put them to bed at e.g. 7:30, they would wake up half an hour later and then not be able to sleep again til 11! This has been the case since they were tiny.

BUT we always ate around 6pm, 6:30 latest. It's more often nearer 7pm now but never after during the week.

Your son may not have the natural later sleep time and thus will be immensely tired, then couple that with later eating and it's not that surprising that he's in an emotional state, whether he is on the spectrum or not!

I understand that it's frustrating but he can't help it at the moment - it's not deliberate, it's not attention seeking, he's just overwhelmed by any combination of things and has no other way of letting it out. If you eliminate the potential contributors (tired, hungry, bullying at school or CM) THEN you can look at whether or not he's on the spectrum.

And yes, your DP needs to remember that in many countries where later bedtimes are allowed/encouraged/the norm, that daytime sleeps or shorter school days are also the norm.

Does your son go to the CM before school as well? If not, then I don't really understand why he's getting up 1.5h before he needs to go to school - that seems excessive. He could get more sleep in the morning by waking up later as well.

Yes, agree. I wouldn’t jump straight to autism unless there are other pointers. Lots of parents with kids on the spectrum will recognise this but NT kids can get overwhelmed too.
He’s still very little really.

My ex dh was also from a country where it is common for children to be up until 10 however children finished school at 1.30 came home for lunch and had a siesta - as did the majority of office/shop workers.
School is tiring at that age and I guess his day is rather like an adults working day in terms of times of being out of his house. The only way I can imagine you shortening his day would be different child care arrangements eg an afternoon Nanny to collect him and bring him home. Could that be an option?
I understand your frustration!

His days are long, exhausting and spent away from people who know him really well. They are almost adult length days.
He is only six and, as another poster said, still learning to regulate his emotions.

Also, who knows what is happening at school?

It need not mean he is on the spectrum just because of this.

Primary school teacher here: ASD or not, his days are far too long with not enough down time at home with one or both parents. Fix that before pursuing a diagnosis. Neurotypical children can still find it a huge and tiring task to spend all day out of the home. Something needs to change here and his behaviour is his way of communicating that he is not coping with the current situation. He is completely exhausted. Don’t get me wrong, I know it won’t be easy to change, but it will be worth it.

The autism Uk website has some vrilliant advice on meltdowns.
This would be useful/apply even if ithe cause wasn't autism.

I like The Explosive Child by Ross Greene too. His approach is one of gentle curiosity and support rather than punishing "behaviour."

However all that aside he does just sound exhausted. I think most kids I knew were in bed at 7ish in yr 1 and its a lot with a childminder afterschool too.

Ours did that too at this age and it was tiredness after holding it together all day at school and then at the childminders. It was around this time of year when the mix of long term and excitement of Christmas prep all came together. I did one less long day at work (could swap for some post-bedtime/weekend hours from home) and had very relaxed weekends for a while which really helped. 6 is very young for communicating, or even recognising, what’s wrong.

Yes absolutely agfee. His "behaviour" is communicating that he really can't cope. This needs help not punishing or getting cross with. He's a little, overwhelmed tired child who needs you, and instead is getting you cross and ratty. (Undertandable though that is!)

Out of curiosity what are you actually doing when he is crying hysterically? Are you/his dad asking him constantly ‘what’s wrong what happened’ etc?

It might be if he’s overwhelmed that it would be better to move away from him and give him a bit of space so he doesn’t feel that it’s becoming a cycle of crying/overwhelmed etc.

So perhaps just saying to him ‘oh no you’re upset. Do you want to lie on the couch and then tell me what’s wrong when you feel better?’ Then leave him to calm himself rather than making a big thing out of it. It might be that it’s become a habit if he’s crying for up to an hour and being asked repeatedly what’s wrong then saying something like he dropped his fork.