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Original poster

NDN with dementia assaulted me

214 replies

Harddecisionhelp · 14/11/2021 15:59

NDN is in his 80's and was diagnosed with vascular dementia a year or so ago. He has a son who visits several times a week and organises his shopping etc and carers twice a day although they only stay 5 minutes so maybe just to administer medication, I'm not sure.

We never had much to do with each other before he was ill, we'd say hello in passing but not much else but in recent months he knocks my door most days, often several times in a day. He's often confused and usually wants to know if I've seen or can contact his son because he's run out of cigarettes and I just drop his son a message and go on with my day, it's mildly annoying but not really any bother and it's sad to see how far he has deteriorated.

He knocked yesterday while I was home alone and when I answered he started shouting that I'd taken his shopping (I hadn't obviously) and trying to push past me into my house, I tried to block him as best I could and he then hit me several times around the face and head before I managed to push him out with the door and get it closed and locked. Obviously very upsetting and distressing for me and I'm a bit bruised and sore today but no real damage thankfully.

His son has contacted me since to apologise profusely and to beg me not to report what happened to police or social services. He wants me to stop answering the door to NDN as a solution to ensuring it doesn't happen again, he says NDN going into a home is the only possible outcome if I do report and that having to leave his home will kill NDN.

My family are all pushing me to report and I know their points are valid, that NDN cannot cope at home any/much longer and reporting will help alert the right services and get him the support he needs, that it's going to be potentially stressful for me to have to live next door to someone who's assaulted me, that he may do it to someone else etc.

I know it's probably the right thing to do but I also feel for NDN and his son and am not sure I want to be responsible for NDN having to leave his home. So I'd like to know what you would do in my situation please? Do the 'right' thing and report and try not to feel guilty when they cart him off to a care home or do what the son wants and just withdraw my support for my own safety? Neither feels right and I don't know what to do Confused Regular poster btw, nc'd in case old posts could make me (and so NDN) recognisable.

OP posts:
Lemonlady22 · 14/11/2021 19:59

Report. His son needs to step up. A live in carer is needed if it will kill him to go into a home, but that will cost money and it sounds to me like the son is worried about money. His house may be used for his care costs which might not be good for the son, but better for the elderly man. This is really cruel on him, and you tbh. It should not be your problem. This man may attack a stranger in the street, he may even kill someone. Please report asap

BertramLacey · 14/11/2021 20:00

he says NDN going into a home is the only possible outcome if I do report and that having to leave his home will kill NDN.

That's a horrible piece of emotional blackmail. IME dementia patients can do extremely well in nursing or care homes. Sometimes they get to a stage where they don't recognise their home as their home anyway, even if they've lived there for decades. Care homes can provide structure, monitoring and expert care. They are also in the company of others with the same illness which can bring benefits to them.

Easier said than done I know OP but try not to feel guilty at the decision to report him. He's a danger to himself and others at the moment. A home should at least keep everyone safe and he may well be better off there in other ways too.

Lemonlady22 · 14/11/2021 20:05

This is also a fire waiting to happen!

Justilou1 · 14/11/2021 20:33

@Harddecisionhelp - not only is reporting the right thing for both your safety and his, it will help Neighbour get the right kind of care home, as I very much doubt that DS would give accurate description of his father’s MH needs. Hopefully this will escalate a full assessment and neighbours will be spoken to.

Platax · 15/11/2021 03:34

I doubt that the son is right about the effects on his father of leaving his home. My mother was discharged into a home after several weeks in hospital, and by the time she went into the home she had no memory of her flat, thinking she was still living in the house she'd been living in till around 20 years earlier. Within a short time she had no recollection of that house either.

She was so much better off in the care home because there was plenty going on, whereas she had been dreadfully bored and lonely in the flat despite our best endeavours to ensure a regular stream of visitors.

zafferana · 15/11/2021 09:07

Well done OP Flowers

You've done the right thing. I'm glad the DS hasn't guilted you and PLEASE stop guilting yourself. You're bringing baggage to this from your own situation that doesn't apply. You have a vulnerable neighbour who has assaulted you, who goes wandering around the neighbourhood, who smokes in his home and who clearly needs proper care. You are HELPING him, not condemning him to some terrible fate.

zafferana · 15/11/2021 09:07

*smoking being a fire risk for someone with dementia who may leave an unattended cigarette somewhere hazardous (not implying anything wrong in smoking in one's own home).

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 15/11/2021 10:59

The chances of getting someone sectioned with dementia is pretty low in my experience. I know with my aunt if a younger person had been having her delusions, behaving dangerously, neglecting themselves they would have been sectioned. I couldn't even get social services to help me get her into a home. Maybe it is different in some areas but that was my experience.

My grandfather had to be sectioned due to dementia and being unable to care for himself alone, and refusing to live anywhere other than home.

The Section was lifted after a few days when he realized that anywhere would be better than the secure psychiatric unit in which he'd been placed, and agreed to go into a nursing home.

The police, social worker and GP were all involved in the process.

OP you've done the right thing. Hopefully this will help your NDN get the care he needs. It isn't likely to happen immediately but at least the information has been recorded.

This is very difficult for everyone. I'm glad the NDN's son understands why you did it. He's in a horribly difficult position.

theemmadilemma · 15/11/2021 11:04

Report. The sons priority sounds more like the house than his fathers welfare.

ancientgran · 15/11/2021 11:07

@ZZTopGuitarSolo

The chances of getting someone sectioned with dementia is pretty low in my experience. I know with my aunt if a younger person had been having her delusions, behaving dangerously, neglecting themselves they would have been sectioned. I couldn't even get social services to help me get her into a home. Maybe it is different in some areas but that was my experience.

My grandfather had to be sectioned due to dementia and being unable to care for himself alone, and refusing to live anywhere other than home.

The Section was lifted after a few days when he realized that anywhere would be better than the secure psychiatric unit in which he'd been placed, and agreed to go into a nursing home.

The police, social worker and GP were all involved in the process.

OP you've done the right thing. Hopefully this will help your NDN get the care he needs. It isn't likely to happen immediately but at least the information has been recorded.

This is very difficult for everyone. I'm glad the NDN's son understands why you did it. He's in a horribly difficult position.

I wish I'd had that help with aunt. I got phone calls from the police telling me to do something and social worker said there was nothing she could do.

I ended up on a cardiac ward due to the stress.

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 15/11/2021 11:09

When dhs gm was reported to the police it triggered a review of everything - turned out she was on 2 conflicting medications that caused her to be aggressive. New medication - new GM!

My uncle had been begging for help with GM from SS but it was only when a police officer made a referral that anything happened.

My point is youve done the right thing. The authorities can only act on the information they have, so well done for informing them.

Djifunrsn · 15/11/2021 11:37

You’ve done the right thing OP. We have a gigantic hole in our society with the care of elderly people who should not be living home alone. The children of the elderly person do what they can, but invariably they have work/family/life of their own to deal with. Neighbours are often kindly like you, but then it gets out of hand one way or another. Carers are underfunded and overstretched.

We really need a specialised agency that is dedicated to only helping elderly people in this type of situation. I believe my FIL died because he was living at home alone and not able to properly manage. We tried our absolute best, so did his neighbours and carers. He should have been in a care environment but since he had agency, we could only gently ask/suggest, this didn’t happen because he said no. If there had been a professional agency who could have given him advice and sorted him a place in a facility that provides companionship and practical help (rather than what he envisaged which was essentially living in home with old people who had serious mental decline, he would be alive today. The accident was waiting to happen, he suffered a year of aftermath, grief stricken at the death of my mil. And during this process, mine and dh health really suffered. We just couldn’t do anymore.

Platax · 15/11/2021 11:55

@theemmadilemma

Report. The sons priority sounds more like the house than his fathers welfare.
We established a long time ago that the house is rented.
saraclara · 15/11/2021 12:24

@theemmadilemma

Report. The sons priority sounds more like the house than his fathers welfare.
How many times? The cynicism on this thread (man-related?) and refusal to actually read the information that OP has given, is really depressing.

The vast majority of the time, offspring love their parents, are worried sick about them, and are really afraid of the decision to put them into care. We made the same mistake as the son in this story, and it took the police randomly finding my MIL wandering at 5am to knock some sense into us. Money was NOT A FACTOR. We just knew that her home was her security blanket and we were scared to remove it.

TheLightSideOfTheMoon · 15/11/2021 12:30

Dementia aside, you were assaulted on your doorstep.

This needs to be reported.

A blow to the head is dangerous and the next person he attacks might not be so lucky.

Collaborate · 15/11/2021 12:30

I've not read the whole thread but can speak from personal experience. My mother went in to a care home 2.5 years ago with dementia. It was by far and away the best place for her. He is so much at risk on his own. He's reached the stage my mum reached when she was accusing everyone of hiding her things and stealing from her. It would be a kindness to report to social services. The son is sadly deluding himself that not involving social services is the right thing. He needs a proper, full assessment, which may involve him going in to a home but may also involve him getting more help during the day.

JacquelineCarlyle · 15/11/2021 13:13

You've done the right thing Op - well done. Hope you're ok as that sounds like a scary situation - dreadful to be assaulted on your own doorstep.

Cherrysoup · 15/11/2021 13:21

Report. You’ve been assaulted.

A family I know went through traumas with the neighbour with dementia. Her family wouldn’t believe them. She has recently disappeared and her house sold. I think they have finally put her in a home where hopefully she will be properly cared for. She was frequently very distressed. 😢

justasking111 · 15/11/2021 13:26

When our neighbor became violent his wife would flee in her nightie always at night banging on doors for protection we all became jumpy, he was a big strong man neighbors mostly older and frailer it wasn't great

IsleofRum · 15/11/2021 13:26

Care homes, nursing homes are not concentration camps. They have professional staff and nursing homes have trained nurses who are specialists. The homes are subject to rigorous inspections. I know, I work in one.

Would his son prefer he died at home and was not discovered until many days later?

justasking111 · 15/11/2021 13:30

Well I've a beef with nursing homes here when double jabbed family aren't allowed in

ThisIsStartingToBoreMe · 15/11/2021 13:45

Just because he lives in a rented house doesn't mean he doesn't have any money to leave to his son! How narrow minded those posters who think people who rent don't have any money.

MLMshouldbeillegal · 15/11/2021 13:50

@ThisIsStartingToBoreMe

Just because he lives in a rented house doesn't mean he doesn't have any money to leave to his son! How narrow minded those posters who think people who rent don't have any money.
Just as narrow minded as the posters whose brains immediately leap to "he doesn't want his father to go into care because of the money"

Disgusting attitude. Not every child of a parent with dementia is a selfish, grabby bastard.

Pemba · 15/11/2021 13:54

He may have money in the bank, it's possible, but I would say it's not likely to be a large amount given that he lives in a HA property. However, everyone's situation is different of course.

What I do find narrow-minded is people jumping to assume that the son has financial motivations, when if they bothered to read the thread properly they could see it is probably not the case. Also one or two pps saying that the son should move in with him, when again the OP has stated the son has a 'young family' at home. So his first duty is to his children.

People just can't be bothered to read and make assumptions.

saraclara · 15/11/2021 14:11

I'd say that chain smoking is likely to mean there's not much money around him. And he'd need at least £28,000 in the bank before any offspring lose some inheritance.

Mumsnet cynicism and manblaiming is to the fore here. It's really depressing to read, when you've been in the son's situation yourself.

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