NDN with dementia assaulted me

[Harddecisionhelp]

NDN is in his 80's and was diagnosed with vascular dementia a year or so ago. He has a son who visits several times a week and organises his shopping etc and carers twice a day although they only stay 5 minutes so maybe just to administer medication, I'm not sure.

We never had much to do with each other before he was ill, we'd say hello in passing but not much else but in recent months he knocks my door most days, often several times in a day. He's often confused and usually wants to know if I've seen or can contact his son because he's run out of cigarettes and I just drop his son a message and go on with my day, it's mildly annoying but not really any bother and it's sad to see how far he has deteriorated.

He knocked yesterday while I was home alone and when I answered he started shouting that I'd taken his shopping (I hadn't obviously) and trying to push past me into my house, I tried to block him as best I could and he then hit me several times around the face and head before I managed to push him out with the door and get it closed and locked. Obviously very upsetting and distressing for me and I'm a bit bruised and sore today but no real damage thankfully.

His son has contacted me since to apologise profusely and to beg me not to report what happened to police or social services. He wants me to stop answering the door to NDN as a solution to ensuring it doesn't happen again, he says NDN going into a home is the only possible outcome if I do report and that having to leave his home will kill NDN.

My family are all pushing me to report and I know their points are valid, that NDN cannot cope at home any/much longer and reporting will help alert the right services and get him the support he needs, that it's going to be potentially stressful for me to have to live next door to someone who's assaulted me, that he may do it to someone else etc.

I know it's probably the right thing to do but I also feel for NDN and his son and am not sure I want to be responsible for NDN having to leave his home. So I'd like to know what you would do in my situation please? Do the 'right' thing and report and try not to feel guilty when they cart him off to a care home or do what the son wants and just withdraw my support for my own safety? Neither feels right and I don't know what to do Regular poster btw, nc'd in case old posts could make me (and so NDN) recognisable.

Tell the son he reports it or you will. Its not going to get better is it? He needs more support.

@Corrag

FGS will people stop saying the son is trying to protect his inheritance! Apart from the fact it's a rented house, there are other reasons why he might not want his father to go into a care home.

We did everything we could to keep my aunty out of a care home, because its what she wanted and, until the point when it became unavoidable, it was the best thing for her. It had absolutely nothing to do with money.

Well it's not relevant in this situation but anyone who is wandering the streets confused and assaulting people is not able to live alone with only two short care visits a day.

It's not safe.

I think you’re right to report, although I can how this is tough all round.

Did the son explain how his father can remain safe? His reasons for not wanting him to have additional care?

If his dad can leave the house alone and be free to assault people it doesn’t sound like he’s very safe right now. And nor are others - imagine if you hadn’t been able to keep him out of your house.

I can’t help wondering if there’s a financial motive. ☹️

@Harddecisionhelp

Reading all replies now and there's lots I hadn't considered so just wanted to reassure everyone it's clear already that I will need to report what happened before I read the rest. Also want to mention there definitely isn't an inheritance issue here, house is rented from HA and it's obvious there's no money.

good decision, speaking as the daughter of a Mum who was having problems before she died, and also as a retired professional.....imagine if he decided that a person over the road had stolen his shopping and he walked out on front of a car....

It’s tricky because NDNs son has put the guilt trip on a bit.

So objectively you should flag it and report to social services for NDN because ultimately he’s not safe (fire hazard as you mentioned, and walking around late at night), this time he hit you but he could do the same to someone not quite so nice and they could really hurt him. Plus as PPs have said, he’s only going to get worse and ultimately not being in the right environment or receiving the right care is bound to be really stressful for him.

Could you perhaps talk to the son, state that something needs to be done and you’re concerned for his safety (and yours), maybe there may some sort of live in care for an interim period, although unfortunately I do imagine that NDN will end up in a home xx

I'm responsible for an elderly aunt and the time comes when a home is the only answer. I don't believe all this, "they'll die if they go in a home." My aunt wanted to stay at home, was furious with me when she had to go but she wasn't safe at home and was literally starving herself to death as she thought she had cooked but hadn't. She's been in the home for nearly 4 years and she'd have died long ago if she'd been left at home.

If a person is sectioned, the care is paid for in full.

caretobedifferent.co.uk/who-pays-for-care-when-someone-is-sectioned-2/

I think the son is probably so stressed he isn’t thinking straight. Or has some misconceptions about care homes. Because even without the assault it sounds like it’s deteriorated between control. He needs 24 hour support.,

@Corrag

FGS will people stop saying the son is trying to protect his inheritance! Apart from the fact it's a rented house, there are other reasons why he might not want his father to go into a care home.

We did everything we could to keep my aunty out of a care home, because its what she wanted and, until the point when it became unavoidable, it was the best thing for her. It had absolutely nothing to do with money.

That. The poor bloke.

We kept MIL home for as long as we possibly could with her dementia.(probably too long, so I empathise with him) and it was nothing at all to do with money. She panicked outside of her safe place, so we dreaded it having to leave it. If people had been instantly assuming we were after her money, I'd have been devastated..

@Clymene I'm not suggesting it's safe for him to remain at home with the current care package, I'm just saying there are other reasons, rather than monetary, why someone might want to keep a relative out of a care home for as long as possible.

@RunningFromInsanity

Apart from this incident are there any other concerns that warrant NDN going into a care home?

If not then I probably wouldn’t report and I just would not answer the door.

Seriously? He violently attacked her and pesters her several times a day. He may have the excuse of dementia but his son is just going to have to face up to the fact that his father now needs 24 hour supervision. if that has to be in a care home, so be it.

@Harddecisionhelp

Apart from this incident are there any other concerns that warrant NDN going into a care home?

There are if I'm entirely honest yes, he often claims to have no food/electric/cigarettes and knocks mine and other neighbours doors for help. Son says NDN has run up massive debts on cigarettes and phone bills and shopping does seem to be delivered regularly so I don't really know what the truth of it is but son gives the impression NDN chain smokes through his pension and leaves himself short for other things and son is left to sort it out. Son has a young family of his own and doesn't appear to have much money (no car, comes to visit by bus etc) so I can see it would be difficult but it's upsetting to think that NDN may not have what he needs.

NDN has been known to wander and my DH has occasionally had to scour the streets in the car at 11pm looking for him because son is frantic and can't get here (no buses that late and can't afford taxis) to look for him himself. It's obvious on these occasions (and sometimes when he stands close at my front door) that his hygiene isn't great and no one seems to be helping him with that so there's that too.

Fire is also a worry between the chain smoking and NDN's propensity to forget he's cooking something until the smoke alarm goes off. The houses are terraced so we're adjoined which is an obvious concern. I realise from what I've said it seems clear that I should report but I also know how it feels when someone you love wants to stay in their own home (my DGF before he died) and you have to decide their fate which I think is what's making me hesitate. My DGF would have given up the second they moved him from his home so I know what NDN's son is afraid of and I know it's probably a perfectly reasonable fear

Absolutely report this, at least to Social Services. Speaking as a care at home manager your NDN is not getting the correct care from Carers, I'd bet if you read his notes it would say Mr X declined personal care. Probably rubbish and they are not washing/assisting him to wash. Your NDN is more than likely scared and doesn't know what is wrong with himself, it's not up to you or your husband to care for him, if he goes missing at night I'd be calling the Police, they will flag this with the council by raising a vulnerable person report, this will ensure he will get proper visits and more of them daily. I guarantee the family are in denial about how bad your NDN really is. Think how you'd feel if it was your relative.

My dad went in a home and it was absolutely the best thing that could’ve happened to him, there were carers there all the time in case anything happened to him. Please don’t feel guilty if this happens to your NDN OP if you report him. Social services will decide what’s best for him.

@Corrag

FGS will people stop saying the son is trying to protect his inheritance! Apart from the fact it's a rented house, there are other reasons why he might not want his father to go into a care home.

We did everything we could to keep my aunty out of a care home, because its what she wanted and, until the point when it became unavoidable, it was the best thing for her. It had absolutely nothing to do with money.

What has a rented house got to do with anything? He could have money in the bank. If someone is as unwell as this man he needs fulltime care and anything less is neglect and very irresponsible.

I think be ready to tell his son that if his Dad goes into a home it won't be because of anything you've done. It will be because his Dad is ill and not safe in his own home.

I know we don't know the son's circumstances but let's face it he clearly can't care for his dad and is relying very heavily on you and your DH to take a lot of responsibility. Which is not on.

Speak to SS OP. There’s various things they can do. For instance when I was working with the elderly in their homes (whilst they were awaiting a bed at a care home usually) things could be done such as having the cooker disconnected to minimise the risk of fire.

Besides that if he’s been aggressive then he is clearly not coping well.

I fully understand his sons fear but it’s a really unreasonable ask.

Fuck that, I would have phoned the police the second I got the NDN out of my house. Assault is assault, he needs to be put in a home for his safety AND yours!!!!

And to you and your partner for doing your best to help

[quote Whatamesssss]If a person is sectioned, the care is paid for in full.

caretobedifferent.co.uk/who-pays-for-care-when-someone-is-sectioned-2/[/quote]
The chances of getting someone sectioned with dementia is pretty low in my experience. I know with my aunt if a younger person had been having her delusions, behaving dangerously, neglecting themselves they would have been sectioned. I couldn't even get social services to help me get her into a home. Maybe it is different in some areas but that was my experience.

Absolutely report it! His son is doing him a disservice if he's asking you not to. He could assault one of the care workers, or worse still assault you badly. the police need to be informed and they will notify SS. The poor man needs help.

My nan ended up in sheltered accommodation sort of a step up from living in her home and a care home she lasted less than 12 months but she had dementia she thought it was just temporary because she hurt her shoulder she thought she was going home "soon"

@ancientgran It may be neglect and it may be irresponsible. Or it may just be someone who is really struggling to deal with what is happening to his father. Jumping to the conclusion that's its all about money isn't fair.

We had neighbours husband had dementia beat up his wife, locked her in the bathroom where her son found her on Christmas morning she wouldn't let anyone help. Sold up moved away , he then put her in hospital badly injured, police social services ignored her wishes after that. It's sad she now lives away from family and friends.

Glad it’s been reported.

In his son’s defence, he may not realise just how bad his dad is. My mother had been diagnosed with early stage dementia but was very good at ‘hosting’ which meant for a short time, when I was visiting her, she seemed to be coping and holding it together - it’s a common occurrence with Alzheimer’s. I lived an hour and a half away and had arranged for carers/meals on wheels to go in several times a day and on the surface, it seemed to be working,

It wasn’t until neighbours started to regularly ring me and tell me that she was sitting in the dark alone, knocking on their doors because she said she had been burgled (she hadn’t) and accusing strangers of taking her handbag did I realise how much badly affected she was. I was a bit annoyed because it wasn't until I told the care agency that I would be arranging for her to go into a home that they admitted they had had concerns for a while but hadn’t spoken to me.

A care home was the best thing for both her and me. She hated it to begin with but very soon forgot about her house. Dementia sufferers seem to live very much in the present so it won’t ‘kill’ his dad - in fact, his quality of life will probably improve. If I’d have asked mum, there is no way she would have agreed to the move. I felt much more relaxed too knowing she was safe, eating properly and no longer a danger to herself or others.

Dementia is a complete bastard of an illness.

But realistically, how "happy" is your neighbour now?

How is he feeding himself, entertaining himself?

His son will still be able to visit him & take him out and also know that he is safe & cared for 24/7.

If he can get violent he is a danger to himself & others.