Dd12 is hated by everyone😣

[Blinkingbatshit]

Dd12 is wonderful in many ways - she can be incredibly helpful (when she wants to be), works incredibly hard (at things she wants to do), can be really kind (occasionally) but she can also be self centred, over bearing, demanding…..I know lots of you with 12 year olds will be saying ‘yep, comes with the territory’ but I bet your kids still have friends despite this. Dd tries so hard (too hard maybe) to make friends - but obviously the less desirable side of her personality eventually peaks through for a moment and they back off. She is now ostracised by most of her year group - they criticise her constantly whatever she does (I have witnessed this on the side of the sports pitch), refuse to partner her or let her sit with any of them at break or lunch. She’s trying really hard but making no headway (& then confirms their reasons by stropping off). I speak with her at length about making sure she listens, behaves kindly, remains calm etc but none of it seems to help her - I genuinely can’t see anymore whether she’s just too unpleasant or if she’s being bullied terribly. Her school reports are glowing - they reference her social struggles in the form teacher section but just say they’ve no idea why and she seems a lovely girl to them…she gets on well mostly with adults. I’m not sure what I’m expecting from posting - any advice from anyone or words of wisdom? Please. I’m starting to feel desperate and am really worried about her☹️. She has always struggled socially - her siblings don’t have the same difficulty so it can’t all be cr@p parenting….

It sounds to me as if she might be autistic. Is this something you’re investigating?

Okay, here comes the predicable... Have you ever thought she may be on the Autistic Spectrum? Before anyone jumps on me, my DS is on the Autistic Spectrum (diagnosed).

The bit of your post that really jumped out at me was "she gets on well mostly with adults." My DS I felt was like a little old man, well before his years and he related to adults so much better than children.

This sounds quite similar to DS and his struggles. Especially as she gets on fine with adults but not her peers. Turns out DS has ADHD.

When you say your DD 'works hard when she wants to' is it more that she'll work hard at things that interest her and doesn't engage with things that don't? Does she have an 'off-switch' when talking/interacting with her peers or does she stuggle to let others have a turn? Will she keep returning to a point she was making, not allowing a conversation to move on organically? Might be worth asking your Dr for a referral to CAMHS if so.

How does she get on with her siblings?

Are the school actually doing anything to help? They ought to be making big efforts to sort this out, particularly since the criticising and ostracism you mention sounds like mobbing or bullying rather than just your DD not finding friends. The school need to be addressing this.

Please take it up with not just the form teacher, but request a conference with the form teacher plus the Head or head of year, and the school welfare lead if they have one. Your DD really shouldn’t be left like this by the adults who are responsible for making sure a bullying culture does not take hold.

What kind of school is it?

No answers. Dd in similar position. Secondary is brutal. I suspect some bullying, some provokation on dd's part. Your post sounds as if other kids don't want to risk being friends with her in case they get ostracized too.

Thanks for responding - Yes is the answer to all the first three posts…. It is entirely possible she’s on the spectrum but if so it’s so mild (comparable to her cousin who struggles with speech, coordination etc) then is there any benefit to diagnosis - what help could she be given? I’d happily pay if there was something that might help!

She can be tricky with her siblings too - they get wound up by her selfishness - but no worse than many other families I’ve witnessed..

I’m thinking neurodiversity too!

You’ve got nothing to lose getting her assessed for ASD and ADHD.

I’ve been dealing with her form teacher so far. I think I probably need to go the head of pastoral - it’s the ostracising that worries me too…it is indeed mob mentality and she’s the year group runt, it’s just awful 😢

Thing is I’ve heard that if you get a diagnosis School use it as an excuse as to why it’s the victim’s ‘fault’ rather an addressing the behaviour of the others….whereas if she’s considered ‘Nt’ they are more likely to help…as I type I know that sounds barking..

Sounds like a typical ostracism dynamic. Once a kid is deemed uncool, other kids will often distance themselves.

Seems to me she's got two options really:

• suck it up and keep trying to make friends and eventually she should be able to befriend someone, albeit perhaps in a different year or class
• leave the school

Think what you would do in a similarly hostile workplace.

I was diagnosed as an adult with ADHD and it's helped me massively come to terms with things I did "wrong" in school and socially that I punished myself for way into my adulthood. A diagnosis for neurodivergents can be so important. It'll help her understand why she does some of the things she does and help you learn how best to support her (and the school). I'd definitely look into it for her if you can. It'll also help when she enters the workplace.

I would suggest looking into ASD. Sounds familiar with a child in my class, they are the loveliest little boy to adults, well behaved, very bright, sporty, but struggles with his classmates and other children his own age. He is diagnosed ASD.

I need to speak to you more tomorrow as at this moment in time I am really tired.

Your DD is the year group runt, so was my DS and the little shits in his class promised him they would be friends with him if he jumped out of a two storey window. He did that. He did that. He did not go back to that school ever again.

My dd has a classmate whom others don't warm to. She goes from one group to the next, falling out with them. This has gone on for a few years now. She's bossy and over bearing. She orders others to do things for her. Is a bit superior. In group work she tries to take control then orders people to do the bits she doesn't want to, picking the best for herself. She just can't share or negotiate, like you do if there's a group of you. There's a fairly big group of girls who do include her (but don't really warm to her). I wouldn't say she's autistic. Just a bit self centred and bossy. It just needs reigning in a bit. I know plenty of adults like this.

It's not 'mild' if she's having serious social difficulties, OP. I don't wish to be harsh but this kind of thing can affect your self esteem for life. Getting a diagnosis doesn't mean it is fixed but at least you can both have some insight into her problems.

Whatever is happening, it’s more than that she’s being unpleasant and therefore deserves her friendlessness. Not that you were saying that! It sounds as if she genuinely can’t relate to these people, especially as she’s by now well into the vicious circle of being ostracised and borderline bullied and therefore even less able to work out how to relate. The school has a lot to answer for. I recall girls and boys at schools I went to who were the black sheep of the class. They may have done something to deserve it once upon a time but they became stuck in the role. No teacher ever dealt with it - some even joined in. I look back now in horror at how it just never occurred to me to talk to them or get involved but at the time I was young and thoughtless and that was just “how it was”.

I hope your poor DD can get the help she needs.

@Unreasonabubble

I need to speak to you more tomorrow as at this moment in time I am really tired.

Your DD is the year group runt, so was my DS and the little shits in his class promised him they would be friends with him if he jumped out of a two storey window. He did that. He did that. He did not go back to that school ever again.

I’m so sorry to hear that. How awful!

My friend’s daughter was diagnosed with autism when she was 18 and some of this sounds familiar - difficulty in making friends and getting on better with adults.

She struggles socially in that she often speaks her mind because to her you should always tell the truth, she doesn’t seem to get that in social situations you sometimes need to temper what you’re saying, and she tends to upset her peers as a result. She doesn’t think about the impact her words can have on others. Do you think your daughter could be a bit like that?

The way she copes socially is to learn behaviour rather than to act naturally. She finds it very tiring. She also has very strong-held views,, and little patience with those who don’t agree with her. But she’s a lovely girl and great company.

I hope you get answers for your DD OP. It’s good you’re seeking opinions now, my friend was upset her daughter didn’t get an earlier diagnosis.

Sounds the same as y DD

Heartbreaking to watch it happen - she did make friends in the end - but they ditched her in Y11. She started 6th form miserable and ended up dropping out.

We got her diagnosed ASD - only mild but it was enough for her to be happy - to understand why she couldn't make her friendships work.

She is now very happy in life - she is 21 and settled with the few friends she has picked up along the way . She doesn't have a wild social life but she doesnt want one. She has a boyfriend who she loves and who loves her. She gets her little obsessions that he tolerates (watching the same series on repeat etc). Being diagnosed pleased her so much, that was all she needed.

*note to add we have had ups and downs, episodes of anxiety and depression etc - but on the whole much better than when she was at school.

This sounds exactly like me when I was at school. Looking back, it was simply a case of personality. My personality didn’t fit in with any group but admittedly, I was really annoying and desperate to be liked, which probably made it worse.

In the end, I just had a couple of girls I was friends with, who I am still friends with 20 years later.

I have a DD a bit like this, although not a social Pariah is definitely on the outside socially. She is being investigated for ASD, and is a bit younger has taken years to push for it though everyone else thought I was wrong, but with age it's becoming more apparent. Girls do show it so differently and often go undiagnosed

That sounds like me aged 12. Not diagnosed until my 40s. It may. It be autism - I agree it would be worth looking into this.

Some neurotypical children are absolute dicks to autistic kids - your poor daughter. But it sounds like you’ve got her back. That is very important.