Dd12 is hated by everyone😣

[Blinkingbatshit]

Dd12 is wonderful in many ways - she can be incredibly helpful (when she wants to be), works incredibly hard (at things she wants to do), can be really kind (occasionally) but she can also be self centred, over bearing, demanding…..I know lots of you with 12 year olds will be saying ‘yep, comes with the territory’ but I bet your kids still have friends despite this. Dd tries so hard (too hard maybe) to make friends - but obviously the less desirable side of her personality eventually peaks through for a moment and they back off. She is now ostracised by most of her year group - they criticise her constantly whatever she does (I have witnessed this on the side of the sports pitch), refuse to partner her or let her sit with any of them at break or lunch. She’s trying really hard but making no headway (& then confirms their reasons by stropping off). I speak with her at length about making sure she listens, behaves kindly, remains calm etc but none of it seems to help her - I genuinely can’t see anymore whether she’s just too unpleasant or if she’s being bullied terribly. Her school reports are glowing - they reference her social struggles in the form teacher section but just say they’ve no idea why and she seems a lovely girl to them…she gets on well mostly with adults. I’m not sure what I’m expecting from posting - any advice from anyone or words of wisdom? Please. I’m starting to feel desperate and am really worried about her☹️. She has always struggled socially - her siblings don’t have the same difficulty so it can’t all be cr@p parenting….

And the thing about order… nobody NT around me cares about order or calm spacws they all want to be ‘spontaneous’ and go to crowded and noisy bars pubs and restaurants all the time!!!!

In terms of accessing Dx privately, it would also be worth posting in the SEN board here.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs

She sounds a bit like me tbh

And me. I do not have autism. I just do not have the 'ability' to follow the herd (and nor do I want to). My problems were and are that I do not think 'x' just because everybody else does. At school, this was seen as having difficulty 'fitting in' when in fact I simply wasn't interested in girl culture or idolising the boys. I much preferred the company of the teachers becsause they were far more interesting!

Do not underestimate the value of a diagnosis, even just on her state of mind. I was a late diagnosis, in my early twenties, and it transformed my life and perspective. Suddenly I wasn't just 'strange' (as I had viewed myself), there was a legitimate reason for my actions, feelings etc. It did wonders for my mental health.

A diagnosis has only been a positive thing for me in the workplace and at uni - I am doing postgraduate around work. I wish I'd had my diagnosis when I was doing my undergraduate!

I’m another one saying get an assessment done. My DC was in the final year at medical school before we discovered they have dyspraxia! They had always been considered quirky or a bit odd but I’m the same (and yes, I probably have dyspraxia too!)

@Megalameg

I wouldn’t jump straight to being on the spectrum (and knowing won’t really help anyway). Sounds like a case of bossy girl syndrome, she gets on well with adults and wants to please them (working hard and good grades) because she respects authority - unfortunately this is because she likes authority and being “the adult” with other kids. I’m sure we’ve all know. Girls like this growing up, I don’t know why but it does seem to be a peculiar type of thing which happens amongst girls and not boys.

Of course she may be lovely in other way and to you but it does make interaction with other kids difficult - and in turn other kids can be straight up cruel once someone is identified as “the outsider” of the group

I don’t think changing schools or a diagnoses would help much. This may simply be her chill life and you should do your best to make sure it’s not too bad for her and her teachers are looking out - and that she has plenty of outside outlets and activities (since she likes working hard).

“Bossy girl syndrome!” “…unfortunately this is because she likes authority and being “the adult” with other kids.”

Is that your professional diagnosis?

Fucks sake, no wonder girls on the spectrum struggle with idiotic adults like you around.

Yes, struggling to see things from other perspectives is often a trait in people with ASD but to label them simply as having ‘bossy girl syndrome’ is both extremely ignorant of what having ASD means for the sufferer and very mean spirited.

As well as ASD look at ADHD too.
Both have a genetic component and so that you mention she has a cousin with ASD makes this more likely. ASD in girls can be harder to diagnose/pick up in girls as it manifests a bit differently than in boys.

@TractorAndHeadphones - Yes I had never associated her behaviour with ASD before.

She has buckets of empathy when she's not angry, makes good eye contact and has a very complex understanding of relationships in theory but can't make them work in practice.

She sounds like me, I’m not autistic, I just much preferred adults than children, whilst I wasn’t a clever butterfly, I found kids to childish.

She will be better when she is an adult and can be with other adults maybe.

Gahh! I keep losing my replies🙈! Thank you all so much for all the thoughts, ideas and suggestions - Mumsnet at its best! I will pursue an assessment for autism but even if this turns out not to be the case try and get her some further lessons/resources for social interaction. She doesn’t mean to be unpleasant but she likes to control games, situations etc, argues her point relentlessly (she cannot bear to be wrong) and takes offence far too easily…I can see why her peers get pissed of with it, I just can’t seem to get her to modify it…. She also winds people up because she is pretty capable in other areas of life - academics, sport, music come quite easily to her and that is additionally irritating to some I guess. I lay in bed with her last night and told what a brilliant adult she will be and that life will get easier….. I only hope I’m right🤞

"bossy girl syndrome" is a horrible sexist label. I've edited the swear words out of my sentence.

Op - I think my first port of call would be to see SENCO and form tutor together. Tell them everything and see how they respond. The school need to take responsibility for how your daughter is treated by her peers. Small group work concentrating on social skills might help.

We went through private insurance to get private diagnosis and went on local ASD/SEN Facebook pages to get recommendations.

I don't think many people have "abrasive" personalities - I think people (especially those with a range of additional needs) find different situations and loss of control/changing expectations stressful and react accordingly.

DD (ASD) has always had excellent eye contact and is very kind and empathetic. But she also has very fixed thinking (Christmas falls in December's box and CAN NOT BE DISCUSSED BEFORE THEN!). She takes rules very seriously.

Sounds like my DS, he bosses everyone around. Hates people not following the rules or doing what they are told. All the adults love him but gets emotional in class at times when things are too much. So some of the boys dont hang out with him. He also does not like noise or certain fabrics and has an obsession about bumps in his socks, I am arranging a private assessment. He is 7

Lorna Wing Centres are too far away - how do I go about finding where I can get an assessment done closer to home?

OP - My son has autism and is an adult now but when he was at secondary school his school had some very good systems in place for children who struggled socially. They had a safe building where children could go at lunch time and break which was supervised by the SEN teacher. They also had small groups where children could learn social skills. This wasn't just for children who had a diagnosis but for any children who were flagged as struggling socially.

Some secondary schools are good with SEN some aren't. You need to have a meeting with the SEN teacher or student support unit to find out what they have in place. I'm sure your daughter can't be the only one struggling like this. The school need to do something about it.

ASD would be the last thing I would have thought of. I think my DD has an abrasive personality on the outside despite being kind generous and lovely on the inside. She does have a love of order calm spaces - but who doesn't? I hope she will grow out of the abrasiveness for her sake.

It must be a shock but for your DD's sake, could you consider an ASC or other neurodiversity more seriously? All the characteristics you've described in your post are on the possible ASC list, and if the ostracism and targetting are happening across different social settings and not just school then that's a warning sign.

People do not not always outgrow these problems by themsleves and they certainly wont outgrow an ASC. I am a university tutor and it breaks my heart to have new students arrive expecting to enjoy life with like-minded people but they crash and burn socially. The students who come in with diagnoses are mostly fine, they are often self aware, they have strategies for self management, and they mostly head off to student support under their own steam to get any extra help they need and build a learning profile to share with staff, e.g. if they need a tutor's help to negotiate groupwork successfully (btw their diagnosis is confidential and will not be included).

But by the time a student who doesn't know they have a problem comes to their tutor having failed to cope socially, or if they've even got themselves into trouble with the other students, they are usually very distressed and in a bad way mentally. It can take a long time to pick them up and get them the support they need to repair the damage and carry on. And a learning profile requires a diagnosis, which can be very slow to get.

Have you emailed Senco?
Have you also emailed HoY? What is their pastoral care team doing to help her form friendships? They can actually do quite a bit, if they chose to!

@Blinkingbatshit

Lorna Wing Centres are too far away - how do I go about finding where I can get an assessment done closer to home?

If you're on FB, I would join any local Parent SEN groups to see if you can get local recommendations. Otherwise just a case of googling your area and autism assessments. In my area it seems to be Occupation Therapy clinics that also run ASD/ADHD assessments (in conjunction with suitably qualified paediatricians and SALTs etc.

One practical book I like is The Unwritten Rules of Friendship - it has lots of suggestions for helping children manage over-sensitivity, bossy tendencies, abrasiveness and even just "oddness".

@Blinkingbatshit where are you (roughly) in the country - there’s a lot of parents on here who have had their children diagnosed, we might be able to make recommendations.

Whilst you are addressing this from all angles: diagnosis, GP, Senco, HoY. Perhaps many of the answers you can help her or sort herself?

Have you actually talked to her recently about her inability to make friends, her selfishness, the fact her siblings find her irritating.

Like a pp, I can be very abrasive if I chose to be. I have lots of rough edges, but I at least try, watch these things, watch out for them. It's about awareness. She's mature enough now for you to talk to her about this now. We all have aspects of our personalities that we need to watch out for. You and she maybe already have most of the answers in your back pocket, you just haven't realised it?

Thanks @TarzansFavouriteThong - I’m near the south of the Midlands/Welsh borders - anything Gloucestershire/Worcestershire/Herefordshire/ Shropshire/Wiltshire/Birmingham is achievable! (The first 3 counties being the closest).

@Blinkingbatshit

Lorna Wing Centres are too far away - how do I go about finding where I can get an assessment done closer to home?

Try contacting a large private practice e.g. Spire or Priory if there is anything like that near you. They’ll have a number of psychiatrists working for them and you can pick the one with the most relevant experience. Don’t rule Lorna Wing out. You could make a make a holiday out if it. I think they do it within the day so you could have a day of assessment and a day of shopping! There is a Facebook group called Parenting Girls with Autism. If you join this, you can ask for local recommendations.

I talk to her about it pretty much every day @Oblomov21 - I’m struggling to get her to take responsibility for it. Kids today have been told incessantly that ‘others should accept them for who they are’ - Dd has taken this to mean she shouldn’t have to amend her behaviour for others. I try to explain constantly that this doesn’t mean people have to like her and that she needs to temper the way she acts - she just does not /will not ‘get it’🙈

Thank you @Lunificent👍

Ahh yes tricky. Taking ownership of an issue is hard.