Dd12 is hated by everyone😣

[Blinkingbatshit]

Dd12 is wonderful in many ways - she can be incredibly helpful (when she wants to be), works incredibly hard (at things she wants to do), can be really kind (occasionally) but she can also be self centred, over bearing, demanding…..I know lots of you with 12 year olds will be saying ‘yep, comes with the territory’ but I bet your kids still have friends despite this. Dd tries so hard (too hard maybe) to make friends - but obviously the less desirable side of her personality eventually peaks through for a moment and they back off. She is now ostracised by most of her year group - they criticise her constantly whatever she does (I have witnessed this on the side of the sports pitch), refuse to partner her or let her sit with any of them at break or lunch. She’s trying really hard but making no headway (& then confirms their reasons by stropping off). I speak with her at length about making sure she listens, behaves kindly, remains calm etc but none of it seems to help her - I genuinely can’t see anymore whether she’s just too unpleasant or if she’s being bullied terribly. Her school reports are glowing - they reference her social struggles in the form teacher section but just say they’ve no idea why and she seems a lovely girl to them…she gets on well mostly with adults. I’m not sure what I’m expecting from posting - any advice from anyone or words of wisdom? Please. I’m starting to feel desperate and am really worried about her☹️. She has always struggled socially - her siblings don’t have the same difficulty so it can’t all be cr@p parenting….

I also echo possible ADHD. The stropping behaviour is suggestive of a struggle to manage emotions. Also she might be missing social ques. My daughter always very well liked by teachers who always told me she had no issues - but she struggles to make friends in the same way as other children. She is always very kind to be honest and doesn't throw tantrums at school or anything. But she has recently been diagnosed with ADD - she had no signs in primary school at all it just became apparent with the shift to high school when it brought about more challenges for homework/to be organised.
If your daughter is very messy than this is also a sign of ADHD.

First thought reading was Aspergers Syndrome

@Unreasonabubble

I need to speak to you more tomorrow as at this moment in time I am really tired.

Your DD is the year group runt, so was my DS and the little shits in his class promised him they would be friends with him if he jumped out of a two storey window. He did that. He did that. He did not go back to that school ever again.

I’m so sorry. What shitewanks. Hope he’s ok now.

That school have allowed this to develop without head of pastoral being involved and while SEN issues are possible would make me look for another very quickly.

There are many quirky kids in school who are nurtured and helped to make friends. A positive of high school can be that there is someone for everyone to be friends with.

Re reading some of your posts I definately think you should investifage ADHD - she can focus when she wants to? ADHD there is this thing called hyperfocusing when a person can focus when they really need or want to but struggles at other times.
Huge benefits to being diagnosed - school has to offer support. Often can make changes to help with her attention ie will put her towards the front of the class. Can get extra time in exams or be allowed to drop a GCSE in high school so can spend time doing homework during the school day - lots of options. But it will also mean she will be less tired and find it easier to manage her emotions.

Does she tell tales on her peers? You use generally a lot, when she is not all these things how is she treating others? I think by 12 other children and parents start getting tougher on other children’s behaviour and sometimes feel it is best to keep a distance from friendships that cause problems.

@Unreasonabubble

I need to speak to you more tomorrow as at this moment in time I am really tired.

Your DD is the year group runt, so was my DS and the little shits in his class promised him they would be friends with him if he jumped out of a two storey window. He did that. He did that. He did not go back to that school ever again.

Oh God, I’m so sorry. My DS was badly bullied too and it tears you apart, but they never got him to do this. I hope he is doing ok.

She sounds like how I was at 12.
I have Aspergers, diagnosed at 44.

Your daughter sounds very much like my 12 year old daughter. We have a diagnosis of autism. I am currently battling with the local authorities to get her into a specialised school. My child is very bright but her interaction with others is all wrong. Sadly the Local authorities will push for the cheapest option. I know she will flourish if she is in the right environment and with others who have similar challenges. Unfortunately the LA thinks inclusion is being in a mainstream environment but it is not inclusion as she will stick out like a sore thumb. I am sorry you are experiencing this. It is utterly heartbreaking. 12 is a hard enough age as it is and I like you just long for her to have friends xx

Please take it up with not just the form teacher, but request a conference with the form teacher plus the Head or head of year, and the school welfare lead if they have one. Your DD really shouldn’t be left like this by the adults who are responsible for making sure a bullying culture does not take hold.

^This.
The school will have an anti-bullying policy.
This is how girls bully - by exclusion. It makes it harder for teachers to spot although it sounds like the form teacher might be part of the way there. It's the bullying you need to address firmly.
Whether or not she's autistic is a different matter.

@StillPerplexed

Contra to the other advice: I don't get why parents reaction is try to diagnose kids as being disordered. 2-5% of kids in UK diagnosed with ADHD, and rising. (Apparently, in the US, 20% of high school boys are diagnosed with it, so you can see where this leads.) For most of these kids, the problem isn't really with them but the schooling environment they're forced to endure. Are 1 in 20 British children really in need of being marked as abnormal and placed on stimulants?

Disordered and abnormal?

Any chance you can change schools? Sometimes kids honestly just need a fresh start. She would have to work hard at improving her negative behaviors, but at least people might be willing to give her a chance.

@StillPerplexed

Contra to the other advice: I don't get why parents reaction is try to diagnose kids as being disordered. 2-5% of kids in UK diagnosed with ADHD, and rising. (Apparently, in the US, 20% of high school boys are diagnosed with it, so you can see where this leads.) For most of these kids, the problem isn't really with them but the schooling environment they're forced to endure. Are 1 in 20 British children really in need of being marked as abnormal and placed on stimulants?

Because the OP has other children who have not attracted so much attention as this DD? I think there is a valid reason for looking into this young lady. And she may not need "stimulants".

And, for what it is worth, schools are predictable in being bloody awful in children's' welfare because they do not have the support or money to do anything about it.

You have to be a "Warrior Mum" to get what is needed for your child. And I believe there are an awful lot of Mothers out there who will go through hell and high water to get their child the support they need.

Remember this, a Parent will feel the child's pain and until the child's pain is manged/eliminated, the parent cannot rest.

I'd look into Social Thinking. They have some great resources to help kids with problems socialising. Some speech therapists specialise in this area and you could pay privately for some intervention if school won't offer anything without a diagnosis. Or you can look into it yourself. The creator of social thinking does seminars and they are open to parents and professionals.

@Unreasonabubble

I need to speak to you more tomorrow as at this moment in time I am really tired.

Your DD is the year group runt, so was my DS and the little shits in his class promised him they would be friends with him if he jumped out of a two storey window. He did that. He did that. He did not go back to that school ever again.

Oh my god that breaks my heart. How horrific for you all. Hope he's in a better place now.

My DD was in a similar situation aged 12, she was always pushed out and away at secondary school and it affected her so badly she stopped attending school at 15 with severe mental health issues; she's been mostly at home every since (now 18). I think she was always struggling at secondary school and staff did almost everything they could not to actually help whilst being "seen" to help, ticking boxes, filling in charts etc.

My dd always refused to move schools - what does your DD think?

Don't hold back on giving her a fresh start in a new school, if she's up for that.

Shore up her inner self. We don't actually need friends in order to be happy. She would benefit from mindfulness practice. Also ask school for a 'safe place' she can be at lunch and break to get away from the bullying - some teachers open classrooms for vulnerable students.

Still Perplexed my post above yours explains a little about my 12 year old daughter who is autistic. She is neither "abnormal" or on "stimulants". She is a wonderful, bright individual but has many challenges due to her autism. The reason why diagnosis is so important is the help you can get for your child because of it. Early intervention makes such a difference to a child on the spectrum. Yes a mainstream school environment is a problem for a child with autism but the problems don't just stop after school age, they continue. It is vital these children get the right support because without that, they are in serious danger of severe mental health issues. Girls are often not diagnosed as they are better at masking. Also for my daughter knowing that her autism is the reason why she faces these challenges help her. Without that knowledge about themselves a child is lost in a confusing world and will blame themselves.

Sometimes I think kids junk on the bandwagon. of it not being cool to like a particular person, even if not intentionally bullying.
Then the child gets stuck in a rut themselves of being defensive and driving people away,
Does she do any activities outside of school? How does she get on with people there? Maybe a sports club, Guides or Scouts might suit her better and give her the confidence to be her 'nice' self with others - or at least not care what people at school think as she has friends elsewhere.

Either way, school should not be letting a child be left out or criticised by her year group. If they're like this when you are present, imagine how horrible they are when no one is around.

I think she may benefit from seeing a psychologist to help with strategies both for forming friendship and preserving self-esteem as she enters her teens. My ds is autistic (diagnosed at level 2 under the current diagnostic criteria when he was 4, but honestly at 11 is just “quirky” with many friends). Many of our autistic friends have really benefited from seeing a psychologist to help with social skills and managing emotions. Ds hasn’t seen a psychologist for quite a while but has done some social skills groups supported by a psychologist, like the Secret Agent Society program, which helped (and he made friends outside school through the program).

We’re in Australia and most of our peers in this situation have paid privately for their kids to see a psychologist, although there is some funding available here for a limited number of sessions each year. It was really worth it for us.

@Blinkingbatshit

Thing is I’ve heard that if you get a diagnosis School use it as an excuse as to why it’s the victim’s ‘fault’ rather an addressing the behaviour of the others….whereas if she’s considered ‘Nt’ they are more likely to help…as I type I know that sounds barking..

No, not necessarily. They can use it to help give extra help, because they realise what's happening isn't a fault of the student. And extra understanding too.

There are a lot of reasons this can happen. Others have mentioned some possibilities.

Another is, some girls can get into some rather toxic group dynamics, gossiping or trying to foment drama in their groups. Usually the other girls will only put up with it so long before they have had enough.

Maybe not the most likely possibility but it's another thing to consider. If it's that kind of problem she may need some direction about interpersonal relationships.

Another saying investigate for ASD/ADHD as it presents differently in girls than boys and your description is throwing up many flags.

Your hesitancy in that school would only then deal with her and not everyone else doesn’t take the bigger picture into account. There needs to be the concentration on her behaviours, not others. School is a small part of life. You are not going to have behaviours of the rest of life controlled due to her differences. Family, esp when other siblings reach adulthood (and maybe in-law family some day), hobbies, sports, workplaces - none of these are based on controlling the behaviour or reactions of others. The important thing is to address the core of why your DD is not fitting in and work on her so her journey in the wider scope of life will be easier. I have a child diagnosed ASD etc and this is the way they have gone on to successfully manage life in workplace and wider life which does not cater to individuals with differences.

In all honesty, as well as working through your DD social and emotional behaviours with a professional, I would move schools. It doesn’t matter now what behaviour is addressed moving forward, she has been singled out and targeted and that’s going to continue and follow her where she is, she needs a fresh start. Best to time that with the right professional assistance for ‘settling in’ and she doesn’t need a diagnosis to get help with this.

Try to find opportunities for her to have one-on-one or small-group interactions with peers who don't go to her school. If they're from a different school, they won't be inclined to bully or exclude her just because everyone at her school does.

But if that always ends up the same way - with none of the other children wanting to deal with her - then you may just have to accept that the problem is her. The school can't force other children to like her or want to spend time with her, especially if she frequently behaves in a way that's objectively unpleasant. Any solutions would have to start with modifying her behaviour.