Dd12 is hated by everyone😣

[Blinkingbatshit]

Dd12 is wonderful in many ways - she can be incredibly helpful (when she wants to be), works incredibly hard (at things she wants to do), can be really kind (occasionally) but she can also be self centred, over bearing, demanding…..I know lots of you with 12 year olds will be saying ‘yep, comes with the territory’ but I bet your kids still have friends despite this. Dd tries so hard (too hard maybe) to make friends - but obviously the less desirable side of her personality eventually peaks through for a moment and they back off. She is now ostracised by most of her year group - they criticise her constantly whatever she does (I have witnessed this on the side of the sports pitch), refuse to partner her or let her sit with any of them at break or lunch. She’s trying really hard but making no headway (& then confirms their reasons by stropping off). I speak with her at length about making sure she listens, behaves kindly, remains calm etc but none of it seems to help her - I genuinely can’t see anymore whether she’s just too unpleasant or if she’s being bullied terribly. Her school reports are glowing - they reference her social struggles in the form teacher section but just say they’ve no idea why and she seems a lovely girl to them…she gets on well mostly with adults. I’m not sure what I’m expecting from posting - any advice from anyone or words of wisdom? Please. I’m starting to feel desperate and am really worried about her☹️. She has always struggled socially - her siblings don’t have the same difficulty so it can’t all be cr@p parenting….

@Blinkingbatshit

If I want to go private who do I go to to start the ball rolling for autism assessment?

Look for a company that offers a multi-disciplinary assessment, such as the ADOS. That is considered the "gold standard" by the NHS so there shouldn't be an issue for the CCG accepting the independent assessment. It will be on the more expensive side but will also give a broader insight.

It's very hard and you've got two dlfferent things to unpick.

WHY is it happening? It could be ADHD or ASD in some way in which case it would be helpful to know as she can understand that her brain works slightly differently and how to negotiate situations. One of mine found secondary school really hard and has been diagnosed with ADHD fairly late in terms of her journey through secondary school. There were other factors at play but that was a big part of it. Had she, I and the school known, perhaps we could all have helped her negotiate it better.

WHAT can you do about it? The difficulty is that if she really has burned her bridges with many of the class, it's hard to get back from there. She's only 12 but so are her classmates and if they find her difficult/she's been stroppy with them, they can be encouraged to be kind and try again but you can't force them to do so.

Is it worth moving schools? I eventually moved my daughter after GSCEs but considered it at various points. Looking back on it, I still don't know whether I should have moved her earlier or not. In some ways, she was more mature when she moved (and so are her classmates) so it's easier. The problem is that if you struggle in one school, you can put it down to circumstances, class dynamics but if the same thing happens in another school, will she think it's just her that is the problem? It's a balance between the possible upside of a fresh start v not enjoying school - and weighing that up against the possibility of her current school/friendships getting easier and moving from the frying pan into the fire.

Was just coming on to say this sounds so like my DD, who was diagnosed as on the ASD spectrum, with SPD and ADHD, at 13. It has made a huge difference (that and studying for GCSEs via online school) and she is now back in the 6th Form at mainstream school, with proper support for her additional social needs.

She was diagnosed via the Cardinal Clinic in Windsor, who are excellent if you can get to them. I can give you actual names via DM if that helps.

My dd is the same but cahms decided she didn't have adhd which I suspect she has, how do we get a diagnosis?

I would ask for her to be assessed. My youngest boy has ADHD as was spotted early as he was a nightmare, but my daughter, like yours, is intelligent, kind etc, but struggled with keeping friends. She made them easily, but lost them just as fast. Her tongue was fierce and she took no rubbish from anyone, but that was her downfall, as she was always striving to do her best, she didn't understand that others didn't and it frustrated the hell out of her. She couldn't do something's, that were simple, like read the recipe and follow instructions to cook a cake, but educationally got 8's in all subject in GCSE's, her room was so messy, she was unorganised and always late for everything. She moved onto 6th Form and struggled immensely. Her 6th form spotted it and got her assessed. Surprise surprise, she is also has ADHD. Girls show completely different to boys and are often missed. They just get on with it, but it's normally internalised and makes them act how yours is. Frustrated as hell and doesn't know why, so looks like she is throwing a strop, when in fact she isn't coping and is struggling. What helps for my children is coffee. Has the opposite effect on the brain to you and me, there brain is running 1000 miles and hour and just chills her out. It has been proved aswell. My boy is on homeopathic remedies that has been a game changer.

It is entirely possible she’s on the spectrum but if so it’s so mild (comparable to her cousin who struggles with speech, coordination etc) then is there any benefit to diagnosis - what help could she be given?

If she's not picking up on the social cues about what to say when, then with an ASC diagnosis she can get some appropriate social skills help to improve her end of things. She might be covering up bigger problems that you realise. There is a lot more to using language than just speech. There is all the non-verbal communication (face expressions, voice tone, context, humour, non-literal language...) And there is knowing what to say, when to say it, who to say it to, and how to say it. Maybe your DD only has those abilities and skills to a limited level compared to the others. First step is to find out.

Hi OP
I work with people with ASC and to get the diagnosis opens so many doors both now and in the future- I also have a step daughter who is in the same situation and once we had the diagnosis the school put lots on place and she now has lots of friends as her peers now understand her
Good luck!

Your daughter sounds very much like my 15 year old son who has recently been diagnosed with autism. He had problems in school from about year 3 or 4, but they became a lot worse when he started at secondary school. He had no friends, was ostracised. I spoke to school several times, but they weren't very interested - because he largely behaves himself at school and is very bright, they couldn't care less that he was unhappy. I also raised our growing suspicion that he may be autistic and they dismissed me.

In the end, we moved him for year 10. His new school have been fantastic, they really seem to understand him and how his brain works. I think he'd been there three weeks when someone rang me and asked me if I'd ever considered that he may be autistic. They referred him and we had a first consultation with an ed psych who essentially agreed that he was highly likely to be autistic.

Then the problems in the new school started - he had misread some social cues and hugged a girl when he shouldn't have - her boyfriend assaulted him in retaliation and all manner of bullying and spreading horrible rumours started.

The school handled it really well, but at this point, we decided to get him assessed privately and he is confirmed as being autistic. The school have been really good - he has been withdrawn from some GCSE classes to give him time in the wellbeing room, where he can get some time out (he has been struggling with panic attacks and has missed a fair amount of school) and catch up on other lessons. Since halfway through the first half term (since September), he's been much more settled, going in every day and has just sat his GCSE maths and numeracy.

I think a diagnosis has definitely helped, but having a school who are onboard with it and willing to put in place whatever support he has needed (as well as dealing with the bullying really well) has been just as important - probably more so. He still doesn't have any close friends, but gets on well with some people and seems a lot happier.

Good luck and I hope things improve for your dd

@Blinkingbatshit

Thing is I’ve heard that if you get a diagnosis School use it as an excuse as to why it’s the victim’s ‘fault’ rather an addressing the behaviour of the others….whereas if she’s considered ‘Nt’ they are more likely to help…as I type I know that sounds barking..

Not at all like that in our experience. A good school would make sure that the child with ASD or ADHD is not being excluded or has an alternative to unsuccessful social situations at break and lunch. (Ours has places students can go which are quieter and they are more likely to meet others a bit like them.)

Obviously, it might just be your DD's personality but it also might be ASD or ADHD (or ADD). There are benefits to diagnosis, in part to help your DD explain why she finds it so hard to make friends. She can also get help with social skills and expectations which are designed for someone with ASD. 'Mild' ASD does not mean that the person experiences it mildly, it means that people don't tend to notice - serious problems may still be there.

My daughter is being assessed for autism/ social and communication disorder - as others have said - it's not 'mild' if it seriously affects her day to day happiness. Absolutely no 12 year old deserves to be treated like this. I'm sure as she grows she will find her tribe - I would move her if she is being tormented at school - but I also think - try to look on the positive side - if you can help her now deal with this it is better than getting to her 40s and unable to make friends.

I have a close relative who was diagnosed as an adult with high functioning autism, it was very very helpful for him he no longer wondered what was 'wrong'.

I recommend the book Drama Queen by sara gibb about growing up with undiagnosed autism - so much I recogised in there

I have a similar aged DD and was a little thrown to read your post.

My DD is super competitive, loud, can come across as bit aggressive (its just super abrupt manner), very very determined with school work, see things very much in terms of fair/unfair and so has little time for teachers who she seems to think should be infallible. For example if she gets told off as she got caught talking but another child wasn't beacuse teacher's back was turned when that child was talking, my DD will rage against that for hours.
She has huge friendship issues in secondary and these were more minor in primary. She had a great circle in Yr 6 and lots of confidence as a result. She now gets ostracised and is very jealous of her primary mates who have made a success of making new friends. In several settings (school and clubs) she says people tease and try to publically humiliate her. She's a target as she is loud and has spots.
She is super sensitive to these things, tends to react, and it's a vicious circle.
Then when she makes a friend she's so desparate to make it work that she puts up with a lot of crap from them, and often doesn't actually like them as a person.

ASD would be the last thing I would have thought of. I think my DD has an abrasive personality on the outside despite being kind generous and lovely on the inside. She does have a love of order calm spaces - but who doesn't? I hope she will grow out of the abrasiveness for her sake.

Massive red flag here, girls with Aspergers present in this very way. Girls become excellent at mimicking other girls behaviour which is great until something doesn't go to plan then it throws a spanner in the works. Aspergers does not affect her intelligence it has a massive impact on her ability to socialise.

[quote purpleflowerlegs]@Blinkingbatshit please don't be fooled in to the 'she's only got mild autism' camp.

Someone who looks 'mild' just means their autism is mildly affecting the people around them. But it could be destroying them from the inside. Having no peer group and failing at all social interactions will scar you for years. Girls with autism can have high rates of mental health issues, self harm and school refusal.

Ds is 11. Extremely bright, chatty and bright and similarly failed socially and then school fell apart for him. He now goes to specialist school where they teach our children what other children just 'get'. He's so much more proficient at social communication already but it'll be a life long battle for him.

Please don't brush this off as mild - that's just what you see. [/quote]
I absolutely agree with this. I also feel that the benefits of a diagnosis outweigh the negatives. It’s such a powerful thing to be able to make sense of yourself.
The Lorna Wing Centres are expensive but specialise in women and girls.

I thought Autism too , if she is , a diagnosis would help her understand why she thinks differently and whether it's in her interests to compromise sometimes . I personally think before we diagnosed it as Autism , people were just regarded as eccentric .

I reckon like everyone else says, you should get her assessed for autism to get some answers and support, but also you need to speak to the school. Ask for an appointment with the school SENCO and get their help and backup and make sure she is on their radar.
Also she is being seriously bullied and excluded. This happened to me at secondary school and it traumatised me for years - decades even. I have been diagnosed as autistic as an adult. Teenagers and kids can be absolutely vile to each other, but whether she is autistic or not, its no excuse. They dont have to like her but they dont all have to be dicks and gang up on her either or encourage each other to exclude her more.
I would also strongly advise potentially changing schools or home educating if the school dont seem supportive or allow this to continue. Stand up for your kid

@Blinkingbatshit

Dd12 is wonderful in many ways - she can be incredibly helpful (when she wants to be), works incredibly hard (at things she wants to do), can be really kind (occasionally) but she can also be self centred, over bearing, demanding…..I know lots of you with 12 year olds will be saying ‘yep, comes with the territory’ but I bet your kids still have friends despite this. Dd tries so hard (too hard maybe) to make friends - but obviously the less desirable side of her personality eventually peaks through for a moment and they back off. She is now ostracised by most of her year group - they criticise her constantly whatever she does (I have witnessed this on the side of the sports pitch), refuse to partner her or let her sit with any of them at break or lunch. She’s trying really hard but making no headway (& then confirms their reasons by stropping off). I speak with her at length about making sure she listens, behaves kindly, remains calm etc but none of it seems to help her - I genuinely can’t see anymore whether she’s just too unpleasant or if she’s being bullied terribly. Her school reports are glowing - they reference her social struggles in the form teacher section but just say they’ve no idea why and she seems a lovely girl to them…she gets on well mostly with adults. I’m not sure what I’m expecting from posting - any advice from anyone or words of wisdom? Please. I’m starting to feel desperate and am really worried about her☹️. She has always struggled socially - her siblings don’t have the same difficulty so it can’t all be cr@p parenting….

You literally could have been describing my 12 year old DD. She had no friends in primary really past year 3. Was so sad. Now at secondary and she has at least one friend but even that seems fragile. I’ve given her all the same talks as you but she just feels like she’s a rubbish person because no one likes her. Really really hard. Heartbreaking as a mum so I sympathise. No real answers except speak to the school. I’m hoping things improve and my DD meets someone on her wave length soon.

Its incredibly important in my view that if is she is on the spectrum, has ADHD or some other issue that it is diagnosed and she is given the right to support to understand her diagnosis and what this means, and then access the correct and tailored support. It is INCREDIBLY important for her self-esteem and confidence and could change the course of her life.

It could be that she is being emotionally bullied. Not every child who has the characteristics described will be Autistic. Perhaps the fault is not with her actually OP @Blinkingbatshit? How does she cope with change / new / other environments for example a holiday club or some after school activity? Has she never had any friends or is this a new development? Observing these could point you in the right direction too. I it is bullying, how would you or she feel about changing her environment, a new school perhaps?

My DD has only just been diagnosed at 17.5. I always knew something was up, but fought with DH who didn’t want an assessment. The longer you leave it, the more trauma this diagnosis causes. My DD just has a toe over the line. She struggles socially, but is great with adults and is brilliant academically. Now that DH and I know for sure that she has most of the markers of what was once known as an Aspbergers-Type Adolescent Female who is a very good masker, we can see how very clever she is and how exhausted she becomes as a result. I wish I had pushed harder earlier.

@TarzansFavouriteThong 👏🏻 to your last paragraph.

She sounds a bit like me tbh

In terms of the benefits of a Dx, late diagnosed autistic adults that I'm aware of pretty much universally say they wish they'd known earlier, and finding out was a positive (even if it didn't seem like that at first: if you've seen the Immie interviews on GMB she talks about this really well). She's worth following on Instagram (@thisisimmie) and I'd also recommend Yosamdysam and Purple Ella on YouTube and Paige Layle on TikTok (obviously I'm way too old for TikTok but she's got a big following I think!). Purple Ella is autistic herself and also has autistic children so she might be a particularly good one for you to follow: she has a good series with her friend Ros talking about their experiences growing up which might be useful.

If your DD is a big reader then Lizzie Huxley Jones (@littlehux on Twitter) has some great recommendations for novels and memoirs featuring autistic characters and by autistic authors (lizziehuxleyjones.com/#autbooks). A Kind of Spark by Elle McNicoll features a main character about your DD's age and is a fantastic book. "A Different Sort of Normal" by Abigail Balfe is really good (more of a factual book/memoir but aimed very much at teenagers/girls - great illustrations, not too heavy). Another book that might be useful is "Autism, Bullying and Me" by Emily Lovegrove (more from her here: thebullyingdoctor.com/)

Although I don't have a Dx even realising I might be autistic as an adult (when DD got her Dx) was super-useful for me, so I would definitely explore it with your daughter (as well as pursuing the school to clamp down on the bullying as PP have said).

DD is currently being assessed as an adult for adhd. As a preteen/teen she had an awful time with friendships and I leapt to her defence on many occasion. It too a long long time but eventually I realised that it probably was down to her behaviour and that possibly the rest of the world weren’t as awful as she thought they were. She was a nightmare at home, behaved impeccably at school and was loved by all the adults but just couldn’t keep friendships with her peers.

It has only been in the last year or two that adhd in girls has been talked about and she ticks so many boxes. It’s very sad that we didn’t understand when she was growing up and just thought she was difficult but it explains a lot. It does affect many areas of her life but relationships in particular are very complex for her and she just doesn’t understand us any more than we understand her. The difference is we are doing our best to find out how we can help her, she will just carry on because it’s not her fault.

@Greenhand

I have a similar aged DD and was a little thrown to read your post.

My DD is super competitive, loud, can come across as bit aggressive (its just super abrupt manner), very very determined with school work, see things very much in terms of fair/unfair and so has little time for teachers who she seems to think should be infallible. For example if she gets told off as she got caught talking but another child wasn't beacuse teacher's back was turned when that child was talking, my DD will rage against that for hours.
She has huge friendship issues in secondary and these were more minor in primary. She had a great circle in Yr 6 and lots of confidence as a result. She now gets ostracised and is very jealous of her primary mates who have made a success of making new friends. In several settings (school and clubs) she says people tease and try to publically humiliate her. She's a target as she is loud and has spots.
She is super sensitive to these things, tends to react, and it's a vicious circle.
Then when she makes a friend she's so desparate to make it work that she puts up with a lot of crap from them, and often doesn't actually like them as a person.

ASD would be the last thing I would have thought of. I think my DD has an abrasive personality on the outside despite being kind generous and lovely on the inside. She does have a love of order calm spaces - but who doesn't? I hope she will grow out of the abrasiveness for her sake.

Loud, sees the world in black and white, struggles socially… classic ASD. Why are you ignoring this and just terming it ‘abrasive’? At the very least you should get her assessed! Also most people don’t give a shit about order or calm spaces.

Also @Greenhand sorry if I misinterpret your posts and you’re saying that you’d never have thought of ASD before this thread