Suicide ***trigger warning*** how do I keep my child alive

[Iimaginethiswillbefun]

I need some help please. And please please no judgement.

My daughter is so, so unhappy. She doesn’t want to be alive. She just wants to go to bed and not wake up.

She hates everything about her life, everything she struggles at college with friendships, she is so lonely. She doesn’t want to be here.

I worry about her constantly. I’m at work and I think about her non stop. But I have to go to work I can’t afford not too.

She is on an anti depressant but it doesn’t seem to be working. I have gone back to CAMHs again but she doesn’t engage with them.

She told me she doesn’t know how much longer she will be alive for. I am a nervous wreck. And the most awful thought came to me. If she doesn’t want to be here and really doesn’t want to be here, how do I keep her here am I just torturing her by keeping her here. I’m in foods of tears even typing this. I’m at the end of my tether. More than anything I want her to see the positivity in life but she just doesn’t.

Help me and please no judgement.

Oh, and meant to say, I know someone, a middle aged adult , who has tried to commit suicide 3 times.
In between those times, she wants to live. It was that at those particular moments in time, she didnt.

Further to what I suggested upthread, I can appreciate what pps have pointed out that if your DD is very acutely unwell then forcing her at the moment to make life changes may not be productive. But longer term I’d be wary of advice that can lead to a long-term focus on multiple chronic diagnoses. And while it is good to speak to others similar to yourself who understand, mingling or interacting only with other people who have poor mental health is unwise.
As several people have pointed out, you would benefit from help yourself in order to help her. You’ve had some good advice here. I hope you can both find good targeted real-life support.

Can you get her a blood test for deficiencies? Get her to have the gummy vitamins as a starting point?

I have previously suffered with MH. I would say that her life needs to change as she can't just snap out of it. A job may seem daunting but it offers a routine and focus. Also seeing work colleagues everyday can help as you are interacting with people and you are all in it together sort of thing, unlike at college where you pick and choose your friends. Also just be there for her, try and get her to go for a walk with you but if she doesn't feel like it then play a game like scrabble or do a jigsaw. I know she probably doesn't feel like it, but just little things distract the mind. I know you don't have money now but make plans for the future so the outlook doesn't look as bleak.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/this-jungian-life/id1376929139?i=1000495617013

This podcast is from 3 Jungian Analysts who are here discussing how they explore and understand clients with suicidal thoughts.

This is depth psychology so very very different from CBT type approaches. I’d recommend it for such cases. It requires some depth

My daughter takes sertraline for OCD. Its only licensed for use in 16 year olds for OCD so I am surprised your daughter is on this. See the nhs website www.nhs.uk/medicines/sertraline/
I think you need to speak to whoever prescribed this for her and ask them why they have chosen this.
My daughter is not less depressed on sertraline. She is just less 'stuck'. We think both my daughter and myself have ADD too and we are waiting for assessments. I am also going to ask if it would be better if my daughter is on ADD medication rather than sertraline. With my ADD I feel very unmotivated to do anything - everything just seems too hard as its such a struggle to maintain my attention and I am very disorganised and messy. If your daughter is feeling this way than no wonder she feels depressed. The ADD meds help people to focus for a period which is why I am going to ask about those.
There are two things which is really important for you. First don't be angry at yourself for your thoughts. What you are having is an intrusive thought because you are so stressed and worried. Your brain is saying if we elevate the stress we can be less stressed and worried. We can't control our thoughts but we can control what we do about them.
The second thing is that during puberty the brain completely rewires itself. A teen brain has moved the decision making part of their brain to a temporary holding place while their brain sorts out the final decision making place. But this temporary place is in the impulse section of the brain. Thats why teens are not so good at making decisions. Unfortunately, their final decision making brain section is not fully developed until they are 25. Thats why car insurance premiums go down then for 25 year olds. What I am trying to say is your daughter is not in a good place in her life to make decisions about the rest of her life so please pay no attention to her end of life wishes.
What I have done when my daughter has been in a bad place and refusing treatment is I have gone to see her therapist myself or another professional and gotten parenting tips on how to handle her. I will say, when she does this or does this what do I say or do?
Another thing is I agree with other posters - if she has been stuck in her room she likely to be very low on vit D. Its meant to be nature's anti-depressant. Because my daughter was low on Vit D it affected her other vitamens and she ended up becoming low on iron too. I really recommend you get her a vit D spray something like this:
www.amazon.co.uk/s?ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_3_10&crid=3IKXIC1FX5K57&sprefix=better+you%2Caps%2C185&k=better+you+vitamin+d&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

How are YOU? OP. Please make sure you look after yourself. It's tough caring for someone with mental or physical health problems, and the worry can be completely overwhelming and exhausting.

I'd try and spend time with your daughter. Even if it's sitting side by side in a darkened, cosy room, not saying anything or reading quietly while she does something else, making a fuss of the cat together. Eating something she would like to eat together, even if it's terribly unhealthy, watching something daft on TV or playing a game. If you could take some time off work with her that would be great. Don't worry about school, she can tackle that when she's in a better place.

Some really good advice here about getting the right medication and help. I think an organisation like Pets as Therapy might be able to help when she feels a little better.

Op if you can't speak to her specialist or your GP about why she is taking setraline when she does not have OCD then perhaps you can speak to her pharmacist. When my daughter started on setraline because she was a child she was monitored very closely - she saw a psychiatrist every week for the first month to check she was OK and now she sees one monthly for a medicine review.

I really would look into the EHCP.
Has she had Vitamin levels etc checked. DS1 had extremely low Vit D

NC for this to protect my DD's identity.

OP, it's so hard isn't it. My DD14 was discharged yesterday from the psychiatric ward after drinking toilet cleaner ten days ago. She is ASD and has quite extreme OCD and perfectionism. I just don't know how to keep her safe.

One interesting thing I read was that suicide isn't necessarily the only option in people's heads, but it's the only one they can conceive of as being remotely possible (because the others need too much energy). It was framing feeling suicidal as the ultimate burnout.

I know it's easier said than done, but it does sound as though inpatient treatment might be what is needed at this stage, voluntary or not.

The only value of inpatient facilities is that they can try under-18s on medications that aren’t licensed for use in on children/adolescents in the community. There is minimal therapeutic value in inpatient facilities due to lack of funding/resources. TV shows paint a nice picture of regular therapy sessions and activities. More likely, it’s a ward with alarms going off constantly, people being restrained, open displays of self harming behaviour etc. You aren’t necessarily kept safe from yourself, and the environment can sadly cause an escalation in behaviour. Not dissimilar to prisons in that sense.
That said, it does sound like OP’s daughter would benefit from changing medication. It’s obviously very hard if she doesn’t have that tiny ray of light that will make her want to get through to the other side of this darkness.

@Mummybear886 please inbox me your email address or where you are. That sounds lovely.

She must be feeling like life is a massive burden now, but l hope she is aware that feelings change, emotions change and circumstances change.
Teenage years are very difficult, and even more so if you feel different, like you don't fit in.
She needs to know she is not alone with her struggles, and l would suggest maybe watching Foxes Afloat on youtube. These two very likeable guys who sold up and now travel around the UI on a canal barge with their beloved dog, recording their adventures. Colin is very open about his own mental health issues and talks openly and honestly 're his own struggles with autism, in one short episode " Autism and me" he speaks about how it affected his own childhood and teenage years. Very moving, it made me cry but l am sure she will be able to relate. l love these two guys and they feel like two old friends, it's a very enjoyable and informative vlog.

I always find personally the people who have been through very similar issues always tend to give best advice.
I really hope things turn around for you both, good luck.

[quote Iimaginethiswillbefun]@Mummybear886 please inbox me your email address or where you are. That sounds lovely.[/quote]
Message sent

Sertraline is only prescibed under license for those under 16 with OCD. However many teens are prescribed it off-licence for depression; this is why it can usually only be done by a psychiatrist and not a GP.
Those suggesting that OP has her DD sectioned, that really isn't an option in most cases. They do not routinely section teens who have attempted suicide, much less those who are 'just' having thoughts.
I am happy to chat if you want to PM @Iimaginethiswillbefun
I have been where you are and it's horrifying, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Thanks all for your messages I’ve just spent time going through them.

I have encouraged her out of her room this evening and we have spent some time watching anime. I’m not in the slightest bit interested in it but ask lots of questions which she seems to like answering.

I have suggested that I pay for her and a friend to go to comicon together if she doesn’t want to go with me. Said I’ll happily potter about if she needs some help getting on the train and getting in. I can do that then bugger off by myself for a few hours.

I think college and the freedom of going in and out of lessons has come as a real shock. She has been off since May now all of a sudden she is back in education finding her way round a new place and I think it’s all a bit much.

I have been driving her in where I can but she has to get the bus as well which is also new for her.

I will have a look at these websites thank you. I have emailed camhs this afternoon and asked for her medication to be looked at. I do check she takes it and she has a visual aid in her room to remind her.

You truly are a wonderful mum

@Motherdare

Sorry if this is a naive or unhelpful comment but could you change her/your life completely? Could you move? Would a completely new start make a difference do you think? Or worsen things?

I think along the same lines. Sorry if it’s not helpful, but is there any mileage in the idea that suicide is a permanent fix to a local, temporary problem? There is the possibility of change at 16 years of age. If possible, get away for a bit. Smother her in all the real activities she has ever enjoyed - not the ones on the net, turn that off for a week. Ima big believer in exercise although god knows it’s hard in that state. Just go for a long walk somewhere with wildlife and point out all the life around. Go as far as you can in a straight line, and then you still have to get back.

I am autistic with ADHD and I was in a very similar position in my mid-teens; from my perspective everything you've said in your last post is wonderful. Engaging with her interests, facilitating activities without pushing and advocating for further help- those are the best things you can do. The adjustment to college must be huge and that can add so much stress when you already struggle with change.

Talking with her about her interests is a huge positive, one I find especially helpful with other autistic people and something I really appreciate from others. Our interests are so important to us and especially when there's a lot of stress and tension it could really help her feel more in touch with the world to talk about those things.

My Mum is the best person in my life, and her engagement and understanding with me and my mental health has been incredibly helpful. And from what you've said, you do all the same things. Just, yeah, you sound a wonderful mother to her and I think hope things start to improve soon, you both deserve it

@FussyLittleFucker

Sertraline is only prescibed under license for those under 16 with OCD. However many teens are prescribed it off-licence for depression; this is why it can usually only be done by a psychiatrist and not a GP. Those suggesting that OP has her DD sectioned, that really isn't an option in most cases. They do not routinely section teens who have attempted suicide, much less those who are 'just' having thoughts. I am happy to chat if you want to PM *@Iimaginethiswillbefun* I have been where you are and it's horrifying, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

My DD was sectioned after her attempt, although they gave her the chance to go voluntarily before that. Five nights in a regular ward then sectioned for six more.

Is your daughter on any other medication that may be implicated in this?

People have mentioned the antidepressants having side effects of causing suicidal thoughts.
There is an asthma drug called Montelukast / Singulair that has also caused many teenager deaths due to neuropsychiatric side affects such as depression and suicidal thoughts / actuation.
The FDA issued a boxed warning about it last year.
www.physiciansweekly.com/fda-singulair-to-get-black-box-warning

Hi OP, this is no isnatnt cure. And only a small bit of advice....

Routine, each night, eat dinner together and watch a couple of anime episodes together and go for a walk outside.

She needs to work on eating.
And exercise.

Maybe forget comicon, and instead invite a friend over for the day or a sleep over. Watch all her favourite programmes and films etc.

Can't state enough about routine and time spent together.

Hi OP, I heard some great advice recently which I wish my parents had heard when I was a depressed teen: When someone is talking to you about how they are feeling, ask them if they want you to give them advice or if they just want you to listen.

When I talked about how much I hated myself, my parents' (understandable) response was to highlight all my good points. This actually made things worse. I was already exhausted from battling with my own thoughts. These good points just gave my brain even more to argue against.

I can recommend the Happiness Trap by Russ Harris. It's a mindfulness book so it's about accepting your full tapestry of thoughts and emotions rather than about replacing negative thoughts with positive ones. There's an illustrated pocketbook, which is great for people who aren't in the right frame of mind to read the full book: www.amazon.co.uk/Happiness-Trap-Pocketbook-Russ-Harris/dp/1472111826?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

@Happenchance
Very insightful

@soupandjelly I'm sure there are differences around the country, not even a discussion about inpatient treatment with my DC (after two attempts) Not even offered therapy. I'm sure it also depends on the 'severity' of the attempt. Those suggesting the NHS will section for 'just' thoughts rather than actions are sadly mistaken.
I hope you're as ok as you can be today @Iimaginethiswillbefun