Absolutely SICK of men leering at my 14 year old!

[MakeminealargeSauvignon]

Hi,

I know I'm far from alone and it's nothing new, depressingly, but after having dinner out tonight, quite honestly, I have absolutely had enough of leery fucking perverts staring at my child. This has been going on for probably the last 4 or so years.....so since she was about 10! It's absolutely disgusting!

She is clearly still a child. Not a 14 year old who looks like a 17/18 year old. Not that it's ever ok to be leered at at any age, but seriously, are there really this many disgusting paedophiles out there?!

Tonight, out of 4 tables of men with their families, 3 of them gawped and I mean gawped at my dd. She didn't notice the first 2, but the last she did and it made her so uncomfortable she was almost in tears and asked if we could go. The first 2 I gave a knowing icy glare and they quite quickly stopped, but the last was the worst and I actually said on the way out after my dd had gone, "she's 14 btw!" And he didn't looked shocked at all, just mildly embarrassed. I didn't want to say anything, because they were with their families, but that one was particularly bad and I just couldn't ignore.

As I say, this is nothing new. I remember exactly the same when I was her age and younger, 20 plus years ago and it would have been the same 20 plus years before that.

How is this still going on?!

Depressing, disturbing and an accepted part of our society, it seems.

When will this stop?

My teenage daughter gets this a lot. Seems to be worse when she’s in her school uniform, which in some ways makes it almost worse? I think because there really can be no mistake about her age, not that she looks older than she is which is a young teenager, although it’s happened for years, the first time when she was 11. She’s been catcalled, offered money for a lap dance at 3pm, walking home from school with her friends and even the ones who think they’re being subtle are actually not.

This is not a looks thing or a self esteem thing. No amount of sitting her down and gently telling her that men treating her, a child this way, is because she is just so “unusually beautiful” (wtf) and “instilling coping strategies and self esteem in her” is not going to change the fact that adults (men) should not be perving on children, there is no excuse for it. None. It’s bad enough they objectify women and treat them like pieces of meat but they don’t even wait until they’re bloody adults. It’s disgusting.

Ah I’m sorry @SassyGirl79, I shouldn’t have jumped down your throat. It’s a sore point for me but I was unnecessarily rude.

I don’t know how they choose their victims, but my DD is also very childlike and socially ‘young’ for her age. It didn’t stop a man rubbing his erection against her on a crowded tube train. It certainly wasn’t because she looked older than she was. In fact I’m certain it was quite the opposite.

She was 9 (not 10 like I’d said before, I miscalculated) and was wearing a Hufflepuff ‘school uniform’ and was on the tube with me but slightly separated on our way to watch The Cursed Child. She didn’t tell me until after we’d switched trains and always asks if we can get taxis if we go into London now.

She is 11 at the moment and the men who hold eye contact with her as they walk directly towards her on the street as I follow behind are perfectly aware she is just a child. The sales assistant in Specsavers who bought her glasses over to try (she was only waiting for an eye test and wasn’t even wearing glasses) and told her she was a ‘really very beautiful young lady’ as he stroked her face under the pretence of putting her hair behind her ears, despite her obvious discomfort knew she was only a child.

Admittedly she is quite striking looking, but I was a plain child who dressed in boyish clothes and was still felt up on public transport and shouted at from building sites. Again, I don’t know how they choose their victims, but I strongly feel that it’s not to do with clothes or makeup.

Some years ago a woman on the tube grabbed a mans hand and said has anyone lost a hand I found it on my bum😁

@TheSockMonster

Ah I’m sorry *@SassyGirl79*, I shouldn’t have jumped down your throat. It’s a sore point for me but I was unnecessarily rude.

I don’t know how they choose their victims, but my DD is also very childlike and socially ‘young’ for her age. It didn’t stop a man rubbing his erection against her on a crowded tube train. It certainly wasn’t because she looked older than she was. In fact I’m certain it was quite the opposite.

She was 9 (not 10 like I’d said before, I miscalculated) and was wearing a Hufflepuff ‘school uniform’ and was on the tube with me but slightly separated on our way to watch The Cursed Child. She didn’t tell me until after we’d switched trains and always asks if we can get taxis if we go into London now.

She is 11 at the moment and the men who hold eye contact with her as they walk directly towards her on the street as I follow behind are perfectly aware she is just a child. The sales assistant in Specsavers who bought her glasses over to try (she was only waiting for an eye test and wasn’t even wearing glasses) and told her she was a ‘really very beautiful young lady’ as he stroked her face under the pretence of putting her hair behind her ears, despite her obvious discomfort knew she was only a child.

Admittedly she is quite striking looking, but I was a plain child who dressed in boyish clothes and was still felt up on public transport and shouted at from building sites. Again, I don’t know how they choose their victims, but I strongly feel that it’s not to do with clothes or makeup.

That's so horrible.

I don't have a daughter but my little boy has had a few very inappropriate and creepy comments and a man on the tube was surreptitiously taking photos of him. I wish I'd challenged him but I just placed myself between him and my son and glared at the man.

I only noticed this happening when he was quite little, say 5-7 yrs old.

I do think girls and women get it a thousand times more and it's usually more overt.

'There are a quite few women on the thread talking of their child's 'stunning' figure and it's really off to me, it makes me feel a bit sick quite honestly. Why would you talk like this about your own child if it makes you sick when others acknowledge it?'

I don't think that's fair or entirely true.

Yes these men leer at lots of girls.

However the trigger often is not the age but the body.

Most of these men don't do it to girls who have not developed. Some do but that's a different ball game really.

They see boobs bum and that in their brain days leer material.

It's foolish to pretend this isn't true.

And yes girls with bodies that meet the dominant male idea of very desirable will get this stuff more.

Not to say others don't but.. common sense and experience make this kind of a given surely?

To turn this to suggest that the mum is objectifying her DD in the same way as lecherous creeps is pretty off.

Other example-

Some girls in ? USA did an experiment. They wore the same outfits to an event.

The girl who was not so curvy it was seen as fine.

The girl who had a big bust small waist and wider hips ie hourglass I believe it's called, was told to change.

Of course some of this is nothing to do with ogling

But about intimidating/ upsetting etc girls.

If you're walking alone some men just enjoy embarrassing / scaring you.

@NiceGerbil

'There are a quite few women on the thread talking of their child's 'stunning' figure and it's really off to me, it makes me feel a bit sick quite honestly. Why would you talk like this about your own child if it makes you sick when others acknowledge it?'

I don't think that's fair or entirely true.

Yes these men leer at lots of girls.

However the trigger often is not the age but the body.

Most of these men don't do it to girls who have not developed. Some do but that's a different ball game really.

They see boobs bum and that in their brain days leer material.

It's foolish to pretend this isn't true.

And yes girls with bodies that meet the dominant male idea of very desirable will get this stuff more.

Not to say others don't but.. common sense and experience make this kind of a given surely?

To turn this to suggest that the mum is objectifying her DD in the same way as lecherous creeps is pretty off.

Other example-

Some girls in ? USA did an experiment. They wore the same outfits to an event.

The girl who was not so curvy it was seen as fine.

The girl who had a big bust small waist and wider hips ie hourglass I believe it's called, was told to change.

You've quoted my post. I've seen these comments peppered on this thread and across this board actually. I didn't say or imply that any mother is objectifying their daughter, just that their comments are nauseating to me. It smacks of the 'sexy little man' comments made by some misguided mums about their baby boys.

Back on topic, you've said that it is nearly always the body and not the age of the child. I don't believe this to be true. If that were the case, paedophiles wouldn't be targeting young children - and they do. I believe it's the vulnerability of the child that is the attraction but again, that's my opinion.

I find your post a bit odd in the way you believe that you're offering an explanation because, unless you are one of these creeps yourself you don't actually know what the triggers are, regardless of any 'research'. Urgh.

There were some useful comments made by other posters on this thread so I'm going to leave it there I think.

@TheSockMonster I'd have complained about that Specsavers employee. Did you? Are they still working there? Completely inappropriate behaviour

Ah I misinterpreted what you meant.

'There are a quite few women on the thread talking of their child's 'stunning' figure and it's really off to me, it makes me feel a bit sick quite honestly. Why would you talk like this about your own child if it makes you sick when others acknowledge it?'

I took that to mean you found it sickening because the mum was objectifying her child in the same way as the men.

Sorry, I got the wrong end of the stick obviously.

What do you mean by 'research' out of interest? And then 'ugh'? Don't really get that bit. And don't want to misunderstand again!

I don't think I'm going to be saying this in an effective way, but I feel I ought to say it, that I think we also should explain to girls that many men will do a double-take when they see a pretty girl, but that doesn't mean that the effect is going to be lasting, and that pretty girls will have a weird passage through life and an extraordinary magnetic effect on males who will lose their senses whenever they are around. To think that the above might be disturbing to many female children.

Obviously, the staring itself is what is disturbing. But I don't think telling someone that they are extraordinarily beautiful and they have a weird effect on males, is a safe thing to tell them. I think the message needs to be nuanced with more information about how sex and looks work in real life. Sure the girls will recognise that it is their own pretty appearance which is attracting disgusting and inappropriate attention - you can't hide that fact from them.

However, at university, for instance, males might chat to each other about girls they consider to be stunning, but they will most probably meet and be happy with a partner who they like in a rounded sense because of all their qualities, not just looks. Many men will go through life showing loyalty to one person. I'm not being glib, but Hercule Poirot in an Agatha Christie novel of 1941 ( Evil Under the Sun) said to a character that beauty is the domain of the moment, it has no lasting power over people. Dated, I know; and sexist of course. But this thread is talking about men and women being different, and about incomprehension about the ways some men respond to female good looks.

I worry that giving impressionable girls the feeling that beauty is like a weird radio wave that distorts normal service, and short-circuits normal life, will leave them either profoundly unnerved and scared about life, or feeling that looks are more important than anything. If insecure, and with low self-esteem, they might, when older, trade on their looks, or put too much emphasis on looking perfect, and that will probably lead to disaster because do sex symbols really live blissfully charmed and happy lives?: no, they dont. Poirot also said in that novel that great self-regarding beauties like Arlene, are like a child who can't get beyond the first page of a book, because they think the power of physical attraction is everything.

I think it needs a dad to explain what is going on with ordinary family men suddenly staring at a young girl. Are the men taken aback for a second? Is their reaction involuntary? Is it just the odd starer who will carry on looking for more than a split second and who will turn a quick look into a gawp? Do most men find themselves looking, then look away? Are men wired differently to females? I wouldn't stare like that at a handsome man. Is it to do with biology?

I wish a decent and respectful man would explain it and find a way of making young girls feel less shaken by the attention. I'm obviously not talking about assault and the men who are approaching and talking to young girls - children. Leering, approaching, talking to, assaulting are deliberate acts which in some cases are illegal, and certainly intimidating and social crimes.

Yowzers!

Not got to the end.

'about incomprehension about the ways some men respond to female good looks.'

You think women don't know that?

Seriously?!

'we also should explain to girls that many men will do a double-take when they see a pretty girl'

I think that is a weird thing to tell an 11yo girl tbh and is not helpful whatever the age.

And it completely contradicts
'But I don't think telling someone that they are extraordinarily beautiful and they have a weird effect on males, is a safe thing to tell them'.

So pretty is ok beautiful is not?

What's the reason there?

Brilliant post tbf.

'pretty girls will have a weird passage through life and an extraordinary magnetic effect on males who will lose their senses whenever they are around'

You think we should tell them this, or not? I'm not clear.

'Sure the girls will recognise that it is their own pretty appearance which is attracting disgusting and inappropriate attention - you can't hide that fact from them.'

So what are girls who get men saying or yelling stuff about being:
Unusually tall
Unusually short
Having blonde hair/ red hair/ curly hair/ very long or short hair
Big boobs/ small boobs/ any boobs really
Being overweight or underweight or a normal weight which is distributed more to the thighs or bum or boobs or ankles or armpits or or or
Being black. Being brown. Being freckly. Being pale. Having a fake tan. Not having a fake tan.

I could go on..

What's the message for those girls?

Shall I keep going?

This bit is good.

Remember the thread is about children. So this is off topic.

'However, at university, for instance, males might chat to each other about girls they consider to be stunning, but they will most probably meet and be happy with a partner who they like in a rounded sense because of all their qualities, not just looks'

So this.

Look at the tits on that!
I'd like to bend her over.
Are we still getting points for each lay?
Yeah fucking slags. Not like my girlfriend.

Everyone on the thread!

This is key.

What about poirot, eh? You didn't think about that, did you!!!

'will leave them either profoundly unnerved and scared about life, or feeling that looks are more important than anything. If insecure, and with low self-esteem, they might, when older, trade on their looks, or put too much emphasis on looking perfect, and that will probably lead to disaster '

Hmmm. The effect it had on me and my friends as girls was to think a lot of men were sad pathetic creeps. And the effect was to want them to fucking stop doing it because it pissed us off.

More poirot wisdom!

'I think it needs a dad to explain what is going on with ordinary family men suddenly staring at a young girl. Are the men taken aback for a second? Is their reaction involuntary'

So when ordinary standard lovely men out with their families leer at girls say 10- whatever.

Their dad should take them aside and explain men can't help it.

To balance the mum's saying they're sad creepy fucks it's not you you've done nothing wrong. Some men are lecherous arseholes.

@SassyGirl79

This has never happened to my daughter who’s 16, she’s slim big busted, latest trend but her style of dress doesn’t show anything, I think her friends may suffer from this as they look a lot older with make up, style of dress etc.. it’s wrong that men do this and it’s totally unacceptable but so many young girls look older but it’s still not right.

My grandfather knew exactly how old i was. He didn't care.

My maths tutor knew exactly how old I was . He didn't care.

There was no make up involved. I was fat (my deluded mother actually thought that would keep me safe). Normal clothes.

Thank your lucky stars your daughter hasn't been subjected to this and pray it will never happen either. Smugness is not a protective factor.

I'm thinking about men staring at female children in restaurants. That is different to cat calling. If a man is out with his family, he obviously isn't planning on doing some pervy checking out of other diners. It sounds more as if the men couldn't help themselves looking, and then one of the fathers was completely out of order and just stared and stared and stared. I can't imagine those male diners would think it was a great idea to gawp and eye up a young girl in front of their wives and kids.

Men who shout out of the windows of cars are obviously feeling safe about not being apprehended.

I'm saying don't tell girls that they are amazingly beautiful and that's why men stare at them.

Tell girls that cat calling and being assaulted are crimes.

'I wish a decent and respectful man would explain it and find a way of making young girls feel less shaken by the attention. '

Why shouldn't a young girl be shaken by an adult man staring up and down in that particular unsettling predatory way that they have?

Lot of questions from me there. And posts!
Feel free to answer any/ all of my questions/ opinions.

I don't think the dad would explain that men can't help it; he'd probably say that to look for a split second is involuntary, but to keep on staring is something that they can help.

I couldn’t care a shit if they were with their families, I would have told him he was a filthy little Peado. Only fair his wife or partners knows who she’s with.

Well done for having more restraint that I would!!

'so many young girls look older but it’s still not right'

No they don't. This has been said for decades/ centuries even!

The fact that many girls develop more mature bodies while still children is what this is actually all about.

Many men don't seem to think of age but of the body looks more grown up so fair game.

That is how girls look.

Society and especially men need to adjust their idea of what a female child can look like.