Absolutely SICK of men leering at my 14 year old!

[MakeminealargeSauvignon]

Hi,

I know I'm far from alone and it's nothing new, depressingly, but after having dinner out tonight, quite honestly, I have absolutely had enough of leery fucking perverts staring at my child. This has been going on for probably the last 4 or so years.....so since she was about 10! It's absolutely disgusting!

She is clearly still a child. Not a 14 year old who looks like a 17/18 year old. Not that it's ever ok to be leered at at any age, but seriously, are there really this many disgusting paedophiles out there?!

Tonight, out of 4 tables of men with their families, 3 of them gawped and I mean gawped at my dd. She didn't notice the first 2, but the last she did and it made her so uncomfortable she was almost in tears and asked if we could go. The first 2 I gave a knowing icy glare and they quite quickly stopped, but the last was the worst and I actually said on the way out after my dd had gone, "she's 14 btw!" And he didn't looked shocked at all, just mildly embarrassed. I didn't want to say anything, because they were with their families, but that one was particularly bad and I just couldn't ignore.

As I say, this is nothing new. I remember exactly the same when I was her age and younger, 20 plus years ago and it would have been the same 20 plus years before that.

How is this still going on?!

Depressing, disturbing and an accepted part of our society, it seems.

When will this stop?

Dirty old men like that should be called out for perving over young girls. In front of their families too 😱. I suggest asking them in front of everyone how would they feel if a middle aged creep was perving over their daughter might be a good starter.

I’d have definitely something to them whether they were with their families or not. They had no qualms about ruining your family meal or how their actions affected your feelings.

I think that this is actually incredibly common, but most men in western countries won't admit to it for fear of being denounced as a paedophile. But if you look at the picture globally, the age of consent varies enormously from 11, I believe to 21. 13/14 is not an uncommon age of consent. If many men weren't attracted to young girls, you can bet that the age of consent would be higher across the board. And if the age of consent was lower in this country, you would have men desperately chasing those younger teens.

Disgusting, to your DD.

It's a tough shit world for women and I struggle to see how changes will be made. Every well raised son is a step, yes, but there are still so, so many growing up in families with parents like those leering who will go on to believe it is acceptable.

Another who has shouted at men for catcalling DDs, and who noticed it is especially prevalent when in school uniform. I think the vulnerability of a young female is what they revel in. Grim. Wish they could be rounded up and castrated.

Whenever I see anything creepy like this I always remember what a jamaican female chef said to me about men in the UK 'before I came to tha UK I'd never seen a penis so small!'.
I know it's not particularly relevant here but I really do think that a lot of British men are so porn addled due to the fact that they are naturally incompetent in that area.

Women and girls have to deal with this vile behaviour all the time and yet there are so many women, young ones in particular, who are all for trans women to be allowed into their female spaces. It depresses me so much that they don’t get how contradictory this is.

While I acknowledge that no one can control what they find sexually stimulating, I think what it comes down to is a certain type of man does and has always thought that their desire to express attraction trumps a woman or girl's right to feel safe and happy They KNOW we do not like being catcalled/groped/leered at/touched non-consentually/assaulted/raped. But what their knob wants is more important basically.

An extreme example, related and truly horrifying, I was watching an episode of of Toughest Prisons ages ago in Lesotho where something ridiculous like 80% of men in prison are there for rape. They talked about the possibility that some of the men didn't really realise until going to prison how wrong rape was. So let's look at that logic for a second... If nearly all the inmates in prison in this country are there for rape...and presumably for them to go to prison there must have been enough evidence of force for a conviction... That means that, in the absence of education, a large number of men can become aroused and achieve orgasm while obviously doing a woman harm. So this isn't so much the Ted Bundy style boogie man who specifically gets off on rape...this is ordinary bloke who can manage to have sex with someone who is struggling and protesting and it doesn't bother them, so much so they can have sex to completion. That made me go genuinely cold when I realised that.

Talkwhilstyouwalk

You've read the thread I assume.

Post after post with women saying they had this from young, their DDs get it. School uniform etc etc.

When you read that what about it makes you post

It's hard to tell age

And an implication that what's being talked about is subtle glances rather than leers (women and girls are.. over-reacting?)

Interested to hear tbh.

The more I read the more pp's takes, the more I hate men. There are so many filthy fucking pigs out there. It's depressing that we haven't evolved any further than this.

I'm very passive aggressive and I would have approached smiling asking if they knew dd..

See what he said and said oh!! You've been starring so much I assumed you were a teacher or knew her from somewhere??

I think the vulnerability of a young female is what they revel in

I agree.

DD is 11. She is adult-tall, but very obviously still a child. I first noticed the ‘extra attention’ when she was 10. She wears leggings or cycling shorts with oversized tshirts or hoodies. At a stretch she could pass for 13.

She’s had a car deliberately swerve towards her as if it was going to hit her when out walking with me during lockdown. Men walking straight towards her on pavements whilst staring at her, so she has to jump out of their way. Men following her and her friends around the park (she took videos of this and whatapped it to DH). Very deliberate attempts to intimidate a young female who won’t fight back by men who clearly hate women.

Then there are the actual pedophiles. These are in the minority, thank fuck, and are mostly men in shops finding excuses to touch her or, horrifyingly, the disgusting piece of human trash who rubbed himself up against her on the tube. She was barely 10 at the time.

Hanging over I know of so many men who do think woman like attention in this way though

Hanging Over I hate to break it to you.

'That means that, in the absence of education, a large number of men can become aroused and achieve orgasm while obviously doing a woman harm'

July 2020 England/ Wales

'Rape has effectively been decriminalised as a result of a collapse in prosecutions that has allowed many offenders to escape justice, according to the victims’ commissioner for England and Wales.

In her first annual report since taking up the role, Dame Vera Baird QC says there has been a “catastrophic” decline in rape prosecutions, with no measures put in place to reverse it.

Endorsing criticisms raised by campaigners against sexual violence, Baird writes: “In effect, what we are witnessing is the decriminalisation of rape. In doing so, we are failing to give we are failing to give justice to thousands of complainants.'

the disgusting piece of human trash who rubbed himself up against her on the tube

Urgh those fucking tube boner men are SO disgusting. I bet they aren't even going anywhere I bet they just stand on the circle line all day rubbing on people. Barf.

@Lemonmelonsun

Hanging over I know of so many men who do think woman like attention in this way though

Well yeah they would say that! And society backed by the media pushes it.

Yes some women like the attention (never understood that but they do) but presumably only a certain type of attention from maybe a certain type of man?

Which isn't what it usually is, and we're talking about children anyway.

In all sorts of situations you get men who seem to think you are there to look at/ leer at/ stare at, make loud crass comments to their mates about, and that they are entitled to conversation about whatever and for however long they want.

On the street they see women and girls in the same way. Sort of like Street furniture to comment on etc.

I've seen quite a few posts on here where s mum and a DD are out and the DD has had something obscene shouted. The mum has gone up and said what are you doing? She's 12/13 etc. And the man/ men have been v apologetic.

Prob is they see tits hair etc and proceed. No thought for the target how they might feel etc.

What I never liked was the way they looked up and down your body with that sort of predatory thing. Or stared at bits.

But I don't remember them looking at my face and I don't remember much eye contact from the street leerers...

You're a body not s person iyswim.

As for women need to sort it out.

No, men do.

We've been trying for years and it doesn't help!

If men started saying don't do that, you're out of order, she's obviously going etc it would reduce loads.

@PartridgeFeather mothers having a responsibility is not the same as blaming them their grown sons' behaviour

Re lawyer - there must be some kind of regulatory body where you are though? Or are you saying they wouldn't bother censuring her for this?

However there is a fine line between leering and simply looking.

Not really!

Anyone who has been subjected to leering immediately knows the difference - comments like that are leading to me increasingly thinking you are a man.

A look is so brief the person being looked at is highly unlikely to notice, a leer is way beyond a look, you can practically feel it!

And again - leering is unacceptable regardless of age, but it's particularly disgusting when it's directed at CHILDREN.

And quite honestly I don't believe ANY man is incapable of knowing a person they...notice...is at the very least under 20 and therefore should be even more than with women generally, NOT bloody leering at them!

It's not subconscious it's a choice!

The vast majority of the time they not only don't care it's WHY they're leering! You're deluded if you think otherwise.

I was first assaulted around the age of 9 by an older boy, the first time I was assaulted by an adult I was 12! And it has continued ever since, except for the last few years...because I have been housebound. Which mainly relates to csa at home.

Dd has been experiencing leering and harassment since around the age of 9 too. The first time she was flashed she was 11, the first time she was assaulted she was 12.

This is not unusual, from discussions on here and with our real life friends and family this is completely normal (in terms of frequency and seriousness of occurrence) in our society.

It's pointless even reporting to police as many times you've no way of identifying the assailant and even if you could most of the time fuck all is done!

Hell if we reported every single time we had our arses or boobs grabbed, were cornered and groped, kissed without our consent etc the police would be overwhelmed and unable to investigate/charge every perpetrator. Even fairly serious assaults are barely bothered with!

If I initially saw an attractive man with a six pack and then realised as I got closer that I'd been looking at a 14 year old

Would never ever happen "innocently" ! Don't be ludicrous!

A quick glance is NOT leering

You are excusing and minimising abusive, illegal and hugely damaging behaviour

Then there are the actual pedophiles. These are in the minority, thank fuck

They're really not!

Women have been adjusting their behaviour because of this shit for MILLENIA.

It's high time men addressed not only their own PERSONAL behaviour, but ALSO the behaviour of their class.

Far far too many of them don't challenge friends/family members who behave this way even if they know it's wrong and it makes them cringe.

Men dealing with shitty men is long long long overdue

I am in my mid fifties, lived in a very rural area and dreaded going into the shop after Sunday mass as this old man would be glad of the excuse of a crowd in the shop and rub up against me, I always looked around when I entered the shop and used to go the opposite end of the shop even if the queue was longer just to avoid old jam jars ( wore thick thick glasses) but he would somehow manage to find his way over to me, still to this day remember how uncomfortable I felt, another old neighbour would try and grab you, spent a fair bit of time as a young teenager trying to avoid those pests.

Hope your daughter is ok and don't beat yourself up but I like the other persons suggestion to ask "if you knew my daughter " as you were staring so much at her.

Coincidentally DD (15 this week) and I were talking about this yesterday but it was quite a different discussion. She was remembering when we transited through Dubai on the way from Sydney-Heathrow and how many men were staring at her, walking backwards to watch her. She was just 13 and it was the first time it had ever happened to her. Then when we were travelling on a tram in Sheffield some men in the same carriage were trying to chat her up even though I was sitting right next to her. I gave them my best stare but being on my own with two kids and knowing we needed to walk back to our hotel from the tram stop after dark it was very intimidating.

She says it has never happened to her here in Sydney. She travels through the city on public transport on her own every day in school uniform and hasn’t had so much as a look that she was aware of, and I haven’t noticed it either and I am quite vigilant. She’s tall, slim, blonde and attractive FWIW. She just really remembers those two incidents because nothing like it has ever happened since. Australia is notoriously chauvinistic so I’d be surprised if the culture was that different. I think I’ll need to do some further research among my friends with daughters.

Remaker, I’d be interested to hear what your friends say because I, too, consider Australia quite chauvinistic but never got hassled. Now, in my case, I put that down to ageing rather than the population. But it was only only three years before I had the London tube creep experience (I got out of the carriage, he followed me and I jumped back on before the doors closed).

I was at a children's pantomime in the local working men's club years ago when I overheard my own father talking about my breasts to his pals, I was 13 at the time, was not old enough to understand back then, but this has been going on for years.

I would teach your dd to assert herself if this ever happens again, we must learn as woman not to expect our dds to moderate their behaviour to appease dirty old men

@Graphista good question.
They are young at the moment primary and preschool age. For me right now it's something to be mindful of as they grow up . I would be horrified if they became the kind of men shouting at and ogling girls even ones their own age tbh. We have conversations already around consent - age appropriately. I think it's about having that underlying foundation of a general respect for women that would stop this kind of behaviour let alone the fact that this is children we are talking about.

I remember the dread that I had walking home from school constant bibbing from builders . Shouted at . Followed home . Would always cross roads to avoid building sites . As they grow up I will definitely be open with them about this with them and how I have been made to feel by men and how it's just not acceptable.
Talking of school days there was also harassment from boys my own age - I remember running away from boys trying to pull out skirts up . It was awful .... not just me lots of girls at school.

Ugh OP I really feel for you and your daughter. My friends and I have often had this conversation - we were catcalled relentlessly while at school, walking home in uniform etc, looking exactly like 13/14 year old girls.
Now as 30 year old women, confident and just objectively far more attractive we don’t ever get catcalled. It makes me sick to my stomach because a lot of men aren’t leering at young girls because they think they’re older, they’re leering at them precisely because they look very young. So so horrible.

@fantastaballs

I feel your pain op. My daughter is 12, almost 13 and is 5ft 8 with an hour glass figure. She's boastful and confident and has a super husky voice. If we walk past men and they don't see her, they here her and their heads literally swivel. Eyes on stalks. Makes me feel physically sick. I'm not for conflict or drama but anything longer than 2-3 seconds or a passing glance and it wakes a scary strong monster or something in me. I get quite scared of my own reaction to them and have to rein myself in as I'm terrified of losing it after a lifetime of being sexually abused and assaulted.

Men are the fucking worst. I long to live in an all woman society.

I picked out your post because you are seemingly attributing your child's figure as the reason for this shocking behaviour. There are a quite few women on the thread talking of their child's 'stunning' figure and it's really off to me, it makes me feel a bit sick quite honestly. Why would you talk like this about your own child if it makes you sick when others acknowledge it?

Men who leer, gawp and harass children do it because they want to. It's a power and possessory thing.

I'm reading the thread with interest and will definitely start challenging men, in front of their families, with the very good - "Stop staring at the child!" comment.

What can we do about this? Other than call these men out on it.

For example, I strongly believe girls / teachers / witnesses should be reporting men who slow down and gawp while driving by school children. The police should take a record of it and speak to the man in question. There is far too much child abuse, child grooming, child harassment going on, for us to continue to take no action against it.

What else?