I am so unhappy and not sure if I need to return puppy to breeder. Can anyone help?

[Notaurewhattodo]

We have had her two weeks. She is delightful at home. Sleeps well, eats well, toileting going well. She is very sweet and family all enjoying her company. Only the usual bites phases in the evening to deal with. She is however very shy out and about. Scared of loud noises. Scared of children. Often refuses to get out of the car if she hears loud noises and I have to lift her out against her will basically as I can’t leave her in the car and we need to go places. I do treat her to ease the process but it’s worrying me.

And I am feeling so overwhelmed by the task of what lies ahead socialising her. We have two children ourselves who she loves but she is scared of their friends. And I am worried this will be difficult for her. She tries to hide from them when they come to visit. How will I ever take her to parks and beaches where screaming kids are running around? Will it be very stressful for her. Maybe she would be better in a home with adults only.

Also I am worried about my own health. I have a mild prolapse which I feel is being impacted negatively by it all. She sometimes refuses to get into car and I have to pick her up and she wriggles around. Also she pulls on the lead at times and I am worried this will not get sorted and I will not be able to manage her and my prolapse will get worse 😕

I am so sad about it all. My children adore her and I feel it would break their hearts to return her. But I do feel maybe we aren’t the right family for her.

Can anyone help me? Please be kind. I feel I can’t discuss with anyone in real life so posting on here.

This post upset me. She’s only a baby. When you get a dog it shouldn’t be something you give up on when there’s minor hiccups. It’s possible she would be better with another family, but not because of the reasons you’ve states. And I’m worried that if you expect so much from her already, she’ll only disappoint you further as she grows.

You need to get her out and about every day. Sign up to puppy training classes so she will get used to socialising with other dogs. There is a window of opportunity and it is important she gets used to things like the vaccine cleaner and children and noise. She is still a baby at 12 weeks. Did you expect your children to do lots of things at 22 weeks? Puppies are just the same as having a new baby, they have to be taught.

This is very timely thread, I’ve only read about half way through and I’m sorry you’re getting unkind responses OP, although some helpful ones too. I too have a collie puppy, a 13 week old rough collie and i was getting stressed today because she too can be timid. She definitely was used to household noises, arrived crate trained, loved my (very noisy) children very quickly but...she’s a country pup and we live on a very busy urban road. She definitely finds it a bit much sometimes - yesterday she slipped her collar beside the busy road when an unfriendly dog growled at her. Every time i take her outside i worry I’m traumatising her (doesn’t help I don’t have a car this week so have to take her on the busy road to get anywhere). There is so much emphasis everywhere on the importance of socialisation before 16 weeks - if you don’t expose them to something before 16 weeks they’ll be scared for life. When reality hits and you have a timid puppy it can be really stressful balancing making sure they don’t get overwhelmed with trying to expose them to as much as possible! I’m really glad to read about those with timid puppies who are now more confident. So much of what i read makes it sound like its game over by 16 weeks!

Puppalicious you sound like we are leading a double life. Yes it feels like the pressure is on in the socialisation period doesn’t it

Collies are a working breed, we have had several on our family farm over the years, they tend to have a favourite couple of people but that’s about it, they love to have a job, but I have not known them to play with other dogs or be confident with meeting new people, ours have tended to be shy.

Your pup is only 12 weeks, your expecting way too much, and in your position I would contact the breeder for advise / possible rehoming. It’s hard but important 💐

When did you have a BC before ? Growing up? I would return her.
I personally don't think a Bc is the right fit for a family. They can be very protective over kids.

I remember the puppy stage though. How before they can go out they want to go out desperately and once they can they don't want to and get scared of everything. That's normal for all breeds.

But I have an anxiety prone breed too and honestly it is very tricky for any children to visit or anyone with kids. I had a previous dog before this one who lived until age 11, but no children then. I do regret getting this one, even though I love him.

If she’s small enough get a dog back pack. Turn it round so she’s on your front and go out and about. She’s protected against you and knows she doesn’t have to interact with anyone or anything. She can just observe. Our puppy stops when she’s anxious. I take it as a cue she’s anxious and adapt to give her time to settle if I can and if I can’t, I do pick her up and distract while she’s close to me and we move on.

Oh gosh. This poor puppy

I’m trying not to sound harsh but what did you expect?

I also would rehome her as I think, bluntly, you don’t sound like you have what it takes and your puppy deserves better

My friend has a BC. It was weeks of hard work whilst she tried to round up cars ans was scared of everything

I think it’s a very difficult breed for a nervous novice

OP socialising them is important but you're putting too much pressure on yourself and on her. Focus on natural socialisation. Take her everywhere you are allowed to. I've had 2 dogs both from puppies. Both are very well adjusted and neither of them ever attended a class or had any formal training. Although the younger one does have a serious attitude problem with other males.

When you're out with her, if you see another dog whom you know is laid back and friendly, ask if they can greet each other. Allow a brief greeting, bum sniffs and move on.

Let people stroke her if they ask but not in large groups. Introduce her to people who ate familiar with dogs and know how to treat them.

Talk to her. Best training advice I was ever given. I talk endlessly to mine and they learn my tone. Then if we're in a situation they aren't sure of, I just keep chattering in my usual tone and once they realise that I'm not concerned, they relax too.

Gesture. They don't understand words but they interpret tone and gestures. Mine had no idea what Get on the path meant but paired with a hand gesture and head here, she quickly understood and did as she was asked. She also understands After You, Keep Still, Quietly (tiptoeing downstairs in the night rather than bounding down like a herd of elephants.) And recently Get Him has become a phrase she understands. Meaning go after Dipshit Ddog2 and herd him back towards me.

She doesn't really have specific commands but she mostly understands and obeys. Your puppy is very young. Mine at 12 weeks was eating the dining table leg. She's a joy now. They're just babies. Get her used to going places and seeing people, she'll be bomb proof before you know it.

I think you’ve had some really harsh replies, but I do agree you’re expecting far too much from such a young dog and it doesn’t sound like you’ve done enough research on breeds.

I have a collie cross, she was very similar to your pup at that age, she’s now 4 and is extremely loving, very intelligent and easy to train, actually doesn’t need a huge amount of exercise, we found fairly early on that too much vigorous exercise hypes her up and leads to destructive and bad behaviour (the opposite of what it’s supposed to do), however, she is very noise sensitive and reactive, she’s good with our cats, but does like to try to herd them (which they don’t seem to mind and mostly ignore), she hates men, especially hates men coming into the house, dislikes children, guards the house and is scared of larger dogs.

This is despite us socialising her from being a young pup, taking her to obedience training and puppy classes, having a group dog walker come every day. I love her with all my heart, but she’s not a great family pet as she is very nervous and her nerves can sometimes cause aggression, she’s never bit anyone, but has snapped at kids and other dogs before when overwhelmed. We have to make sure that kids know to keep away from her and not crowd her, that she’s on a short lead when being walked, that she’s only off lead around smaller dogs and with no children near by, her recall is very good, but if children or large dogs run up to her she can snap and I’m very scared she may bite.

I think unfortunately if you want a laid back dog who is good with children, noise and crowds you have chosen the wrong breed.

You need to bring her up and show her what you need and how you live as a family, in a positive and loving way. It's really normal to have a pup who is nervous about everything new. Mine was car sick for months and quivered if I took her to school.
Her confidence in you and the big scary world comes with time and positive experience; small steps, consistency and repetition - lots of love, patience and support.
You can do all the research you like, but it doesn't prepare you fully for doing it each day, everyday, and breed expectations don't cover individual temperaments and characters You have my empathy - please don't give up.
Join the puppy survival thread here - you are not alone in your feelings of being overwhelmed. It does get better; you will grow together x

God some people are so harsh
OP we got a boxer pup 6 months ago and nothing prepares you for having a puppy , I think you can read all the books in the world but nothing prepares you for real life
Try to relax , enjoy ur pup, follow their lead and i’m sure things will work out for the best - good luck 🐶

OP puppies are really hard work! I’ve got a show type cocker spaniel who is neurotic as hell and was a nightmare to get used to things. He’s 10 now and pretty bombproof for most things although was a bit surprised at a man in a cherry picker at the window of my first floor flat this morning!

However if you really do feel like you’ve made a huge mistake then there is absolutely no shame in admitting that and returning your pup to the breeder if it isn’t working out. You should all enhance each other’s lives not make them miserable.

I have a Collie, nearly 2, she was a nervy pup when out but a joy at home and got better and better as we went out and about more. However, we walked into town for the first time in ages this week and she was bloody awful! She was over stimulated bless her.

I don’t see anything concerning from what you have described.

Did you meet her parents? What where their temperaments like?

You can’t reinforce her fear but it’s better not to put her in situations that make her fearful. If you go at her pace her confidence will increase and she’s more likely to want to explore more. There is some good advice on a current Doghouse thread about things that can be done to socialise your dog and build their confidence and resilience, some from the safety of your own home:

“Socialisation is also way more than just visual.

Think of surfaces they need to walk on - this can be done at home, so get wooden planks, thick carpet, laminate, a trampoline (obviously wit you holding on!) surfaces that move .

Smell is very important, barbecues, petrol stations, smoke, animal smells.

Sound play sounds on phones squawking birds, gunshots, fireworks etc

Put novel items in the house and garden, wheelbarrow upside down, ironing boards on their side, plastic bags (supervised) blowing in the wind in the garden.

REMEMBER all of this should be under threshold and watch out for your puppies reactions, any lip licking, yawning, turning head away, ear position, whale eyes, panting etc increase you distance.”

In my experience, adult collies tend to pull a lot and are strong on the lead. Do you have a backup plan if she becomes too much for you to handle? Is your husband prepared to do all the walking and training?

I think you should take her back. I don't think you sound right for ANY dog at the moment and at 12 weeks, she's still a cute wee puppy so breeder should be able to find a suitable home for her.

I really despise Mumsnet sometimes, especially when it comes to dogs.
People can be utterly, utterly vile.

OP, I have a collie.
She wasn’t like your puppy, she was an outstandingly confident pup but border collies are well known for being a nervous breed.
Given careful socialisation a nervous puppy isn’t usually the end of the world and in collies, a shy puppy it isn’t that unusual.

As PP have said, 8 to 12 weeks is the first fear period, with careful socialisation (getting her out and about to LOOK and SMELL many different things but not allowing anything potentially overwhelming like strangers stroking her, other dogs approaching her etc) i suspect she’ll be absolutely fine.

You said you liked a reserved dog and I would agree that the border collie is one of the most reserved breeds out there.
I have never encountered an adult border collie that was desperate to be everyone’s friend like a golden retriever or Labrador.

On a walk a few days ago we ended up walking with 4 other border collies.
We (the owners) had a little joke about a collie party but every single collie completely blanked each other!
I later saw one of the collies with two bull breed dogs.
Again, running and walking with them but entirely ignoring them.
I would say this is a common trait in collies, they are generally fairly uninterested dogs/people that aren’t in their known family unit.

Try not to worry
I suspect that your little puppy will be fine, she’ll probably never be super keen to meet and greet everyone and everything but then collies generally aren’t that kind of dog anyway!
They are generally very sensible, wary, loyal dogs politely disinterested in anyone not family.

@Notaurewhattodo

When we go out for walks she often stops and refuses to go any further as she is scared of for instance a rubbish bag at the side of the pavement. I guess she doesn’t know what it is. Is this normal?

Completely normal. Try a puppy backpack to get her used to the world.

You wear it on your front.

I think you sound like you're trying your best, OP. Maybe take her to quieter places so she can investigate unusual things without being overwhelmed to begin with and then work up to busier places. Also, when she is scared of your children's friends make sure she has a safe place to go to and don't let her be disturbed. Once she knows she has a safe place then she'll gain confidence and venture out to explore more frequently, knowing she can retreat on her terms. Bribery and distraction work for getting in/out of the car, she needs something exciting to focus on (chew stick, kong?) It'll just take time, keep going!

@Notaurewhattodo

Branleuse please tell me about your dogs

My dogs are older. I had a puppy once ( border collie alsation cross, ages ago) and it was such hard work ive gone for older rescues ever since, but if you stick with it, there is something lovely about knowing them since a pup. I wouldnt have said a collie is a beginners dog, as they are crazy clever, but that doesnt mean it cant be done, but youll have to put the training in, but youll be repaid so much as they have such a lot of personality.

@BigWolfLittleWolf I see some when i walk my dog, and they completely ignore other dogs and are totally focussed on their owners and the games they want the owner to play. Its really sweet. Constant eye contact, concentration on the task in hand. Makes my heart melt.

Being spooked by a random thing like a bag blowing in the wind is totally standard, @Notaurewhattodo. She’s never seen it before and it’s something that goes from not moving to all of a sudden moving very erratically and making a weird noise, scary stuff!

@Notaurewhattodo I have a young working line Springer Spaniel, now 7months. She is a completely different package to when she can home at 8.5wks.
She was car sick, and basically hated the car, she was a crockeroo, petrified of the outside world, unruly in the house, would get overstimulated easily. Over the last 5 months she has responded so well and is now allowed around the house and has beds in rooms where she can have a snooze during the day or evening. She is very loving and responsive; has pretty good manners, is fine in the car, takes everything more in her stride and is cautious rather than fearful. I have been able to start group gundog classes in n the last few weeks which has really helped direct our training and build upon how far she has come already.
She is also a very clever girl - just like your collie - which means she is more thoughtful and reserved with new experiences, but also she learns really quickly, so positive experiences are building her confidence and behaviour gradually. This is a slow and gradual process.
Books are not as good as in-person training, and I'm sure your trainer will help you relax and slow things down to smaller more focussed steps. I would hope they have a lot of specific breed experience?
It will take months, but you will see her grow and settle and improve.
My bundle of energy is shaping up beautifully now, and I love her to bits.
I also felt that I wasn't up to it and couldn't give her what she needed, in the first few months, including considering rehoming her. I know that's part of the journey, and now I can see how she is attached to me and how she responds to me, and I know we have come through that phase.

Allowing myself to relax and take things more slowly, plus getting into a directed training program have all helped a lot.

She still won't go up to other people or dogs - she's interested but prefers to observe quietly - she takes things in her stride, and that's her breed. She will likely become a bit more sociable in time. The important thing for me is she is not overly fearful or reactive.