I am so unhappy and not sure if I need to return puppy to breeder. Can anyone help?

[Notaurewhattodo]

We have had her two weeks. She is delightful at home. Sleeps well, eats well, toileting going well. She is very sweet and family all enjoying her company. Only the usual bites phases in the evening to deal with. She is however very shy out and about. Scared of loud noises. Scared of children. Often refuses to get out of the car if she hears loud noises and I have to lift her out against her will basically as I can’t leave her in the car and we need to go places. I do treat her to ease the process but it’s worrying me.

And I am feeling so overwhelmed by the task of what lies ahead socialising her. We have two children ourselves who she loves but she is scared of their friends. And I am worried this will be difficult for her. She tries to hide from them when they come to visit. How will I ever take her to parks and beaches where screaming kids are running around? Will it be very stressful for her. Maybe she would be better in a home with adults only.

Also I am worried about my own health. I have a mild prolapse which I feel is being impacted negatively by it all. She sometimes refuses to get into car and I have to pick her up and she wriggles around. Also she pulls on the lead at times and I am worried this will not get sorted and I will not be able to manage her and my prolapse will get worse 😕

I am so sad about it all. My children adore her and I feel it would break their hearts to return her. But I do feel maybe we aren’t the right family for her.

Can anyone help me? Please be kind. I feel I can’t discuss with anyone in real life so posting on here.

See if there are any puppy socialisation classes close by, it's usually outdoors so they should be ok.

12 weeks is still very young. Mine use to hate going outside and would sit just outside the door and refuse to move, now he goes mad when he hears the lead and practically drags me out the door

OP on mumsnet people can be staggeringly unkind about dogs. My husband and I were experienced dog owners and we have still really struggled with our new pup. Nothing can prepare you and if we'd been able to give him back I think we would have done. He's pushed me to the limits of my mental health and even my husband (who is usually incredibly calm) has been more stressed than I've ever known him.
Anyway just wanted you to know you aren't alone struggling, you aren't a bad person or bad dog owner.

People on here are ridiculous sometimes.

The only responsible thing to do if you aren’t getting on with a puppy is return it to the breeder and she’s getting stick for it? And the people giving the stick aren’t even suggesting anything helpful just saying ‘what did you expect? Did you do any research?’.

I have 2 dogs but have no useful advice regarding a timid puppy as both mine were very confident. So I don’t think it’s wrong for you to assume it’s not normal OP. Some wise answers on here that I’m glad you’re open to trying. Good luck.

OP I have a new puppy - a labrador and she needed masses of reassurance and careful expossure as a baby. She is now 20 weeks and whilst we can see her confidence coming along, we still handle her interactions and socialising in a careful and caring way. Yes I read everything before she came and I do not have small children, however I always reassured her and knelt down when she was unsure and cuddled her or popped her on my lap so she could observe but know I was there. It does get better, but I do think a collie is super sensitive?? I am not not an expert, my son has a lab/collie cross and he still can be nervous of new things. I would take it slowly and be confident and patient with the pup. Like a PP said, please please check out Dog Behaviour and Training on FB! BRILLIANT!

The trainer I am seeing next week is very experienced. So she will maybe be able to advise me if anything is amiss. We haven’t met many other dogs yet. Only one or two but she does seem excited to see other dogs so that is reassuring I think.

My first pup was really nervous. We used to go out and just sit and watch the world from a distance. Not so close that she was scared but so she could see and have a cuddle. We used to even sit in the boot of the car with treats and watch the world go by. She’s so much better now. No she wouldn’t like to be surrounded by screaming kids. But not sure any dog would!

All the reading in the world will not prepare you for life with a puppy if you’ve not had one before, just the same as reading all the books doesn’t prepare you for the reality of life with a newborn baby (and they don’t move or bite or toilet everywhere).

If she’s able to take treats while you’re out and about then she’s not overthreshold and is learning to positively associate all the new experiences she’s seeing.

Absolutely second the recommendation for Dog Training Advice and Support group on Facebook. Read all the units, even the ones you don’t think apply to your situation. Then search the posts. There is no question you can think of that won’t already have been asked and answered. I found it all quite overwhelming reading it at first but once you start putting it into practice it comes much more naturally.

She will take treats from me when we are out. So that is a good sign ?

I did join the dog training Facebook page. I do find it very helpful. Although some of the posts on there with people who have dogs at say 6 months that are becoming reactive, make me worry that could be us in the future. I probably need to worry less about the future and focus on the now.

Reactivity at 6 months is likely to be related to a secondary fear period. You would work through that in the same way your socialising her and building her positive associations.

It feels like a lot of pressure to create a well socialised dog and a small window in which to do it when can ramp up the anxiety but it sounds like you’re going the right things OP and the behaviourist advice will help give you confidende too.

Op read up on how guide dog puppies are trained, it will be an eye opener, out and about meeting every possible thing from as soon as possible vaccination wise.
I have had dogs from puppies all my life and as soon as l take home a new puppy,( 8-9 weeks)they come out everywhere being carried to start with, so from the comfort of your arms they experience shopping streets, traffic, car noises, people etc.
As soon as they are vaccinated, then l would take them out on a lead for as many very short (10 minute walks) in as many places as possible, ie garden centres are great, short walk around then sit and have a coffee with pup beside you.
town centre, if he is scared, find a sitting spot and put him close to your legs, and sit for 15 minutes, repeat daily or twice a day.
Park, twice a day l would take mine to the local park and let them meet as many other dogs as possible,again keep it short.
Your body language must be confident, don't fuss, have a confident low voice.
You will get there..

Hi,

Good for you for seeking advice at this stage.

Fearfulness in puppies is normal to a degree- the world is vast, new and at times completely overwhelming- but you do have to be careful how you handle it otherwise your pup will grow to be fearful instead of the well rounded dog you're after. Also bear in mind that collies tend to be temperamentally very highly strung- they're very visually stimulated (bear in mind they are bred to watch a sheep's every single muscle twitch and react when herding for example) and typically can become quite worked up which causes them to behave in unwanted ways. I've worked with a number who really struggled from a young age and it took a lot of consistent, daily support and help from the owner to support them through it.

But anyway, There's way too much to go through on a thread.

Can I ask what research you've done in to the trainer you've picked? I used to work with dogs for ten years and the industry is a bit of a minefield. I'm sorry to say some trainers cause more harm than good. I can definitely recommend some great trainers who I've known and worked with and who have worked in really reputable charities and businesses and who are also very well qualified in modern, evidence based and POSITIVE dog training. Choosing the right trainer at this stage is the single most important thing to do.

In the meantime, I suggest you stop taking her out almost completely. Drive to a quiet area and find a bench and sit there for half an hour so she can watch the world go by. Take a couple of toys and a puppy appropriate chew. Do that every day until you get a trainer out to you. Contrary to previous posts, I highly recommend you use food. Food will not reward nervousness in the same way that giving someone a hug when they are upset doesn't reward crying- it will just help her feel better and begin creating positive associations.

Once you've had a chat with a good, well qualified and sensible trainer and understand the extent of the work that needs to be done, you can always make the call then to return her if she's not right for you. But at least you'll more.

Mine is 6mos and I still occasionally pick him up and walk him over a busy road (loud noises !) or past something like roadworks. He is very social and outgoing and loves kids and strangers. But it took time to get here!

The trainer comes highly recommended by our vet. They gave me a list of dog trainers locally and said she was the best one if I could get a space with her.
That’s all I know though.

I honestly don't know how anyone is expected to ever be allowed to have a "first" dog on mumsnet. Honestly, the tone of some of these comments... OP, just take it v slowly. Some dogs are bouncy, easygoing characters. Some aren't. Yours apparently is shy. Just take it slow, and let her explore the world at her own pace. It's not rocket science. Good luck.

Imo timid is better than one who is super confident. Mine is 3 now and if off lead in parks etc he doesn’t wander off, isn’t tempted by families with picnic calling him over (he’s small and cute), and generally just ignores everything, preferring to stay with me, his safety zone.
This!
I have a collie cross, he was very nervous of everything at 12 weeks, I used to try and reassure him. For example, in you carrier bag example, I'd crouch down near the bag, touch it and talk gently/praise dog and encourage him to sniff it. Often he'd barking at it and flinch but then have a good sniff. Then give him a treat, tell him what a good boy he was and carry on.
Hes 9 months now and fine about 90% of stuff, still nervous of things he hasn't encountered before but I prefer it this way as he stays with me for reassurance!

I do prefer a more reserved dog which is something I like in collies. I would find a very sociable dog who insisted on greeting everyone quite difficult as I am a reserved person myself.

Normal isn't perhaps how I'd describe it. Like humans all puppies are different so some will be super confident and others less so however it's certainly nothing to worry about after 2 weeks!

What's the name of the trainer? I'll do a Google if that would be helpful?

You aren't socializing her. That phase of her life is over. You are introducing her to new things, familiarizing her with the wider world.

And doing it a bit too quickly by the sound of it.

She needed time in your home, with you, acclimatizing to her new surroundings. We only ever took our pup out in a carry bag for the first month we had him, keeping him safe, making sure his vaccines were all done.

Go back a step or two. Reduce the new she experiences. Make sure she is firmly attached to you, comfortable and safe with you. Then short walks from the door. Maybe only a couple of hundred yards at most. Let her know where home is in the wide world.

None of my dogs ever behaved like this when puppies. Quite the opposite- they may be startled by something new but would soon be sniffing and wagging their tails. But I made sure I chose the more active and bold puppies in the litter.
If your dog is shy then it will just take extra effort on your part to get it to overcome this. If you feel you are not up to the challenge try a trainer who will show you how to help your puppy.

This is unhelpful at this stage but I think you have the wrong breed. Collies don't make good first time dogs. They're highly strung, demanding of your time (they're bred to shadow and assist) and incredibly clever. You sound anxious and in concerned that you and the puppy will spiral as your anxiety sparks hers. Your threshold of tolerance seems very low if you're questioning sending her back so soon.

You need a golden retriever as they tend to be easy to train, active when exercising and placid when not, forgiving of mistakes and easy come easy go with children.

😢

You're getting a bit of a hard time here OP. When we got a puppy (Tibetan terrier) he was absolutely fearless from day 1, so I would be feeling a bit worried that she wasnt happy, like you do, and that's why you're asking here.

Ease into getting her used to new noises/smells etc, and do go ahead with the training next week. It sounds like shes just overwhelmed at this point.

Sorry I answered before reading all the updates. A lot of what you describe may well not ever be suitable for a collie - busy school runs and unknown kids coming in the house. You do get some who are good family pets but mostly they are a working breed who don't like too much noise, business or chaos that comes with younger kids. They are frequently nervous and neurotic and often display herding behaviour around kids that can be difficult to deal with. I agree with everything that @Mybestestfriend has did in that you're going to need a lot more tolerance if you want to be in with that chance of turning a nervy collie in to a safe and happy family dog