What are narcissists like as children?

[DianaT1969]

I see many posts about narcissistic parents and partners on MN. I don't know much about it, but assume that people don't suddenly become narcissists in adulthood. If so, what are they like as children, and at what age does it become apparent?

Thanks for sharing. Sad but not surprising that the cycle is often repeated from parent to child.
This is a heads up to any parent who may be trying to keep their family together with an abusive co-parent.
We see it often on the relationship board. A long delay in escaping due to finances or housing and a reluctance to split up the family unit until things are really bad.
The fleeing partner sometimes says "I don't want to split up the family because the (abusive) parent is a good dad/mum and DC have a bond with them."
MN posters are quick to point out that it's likely a trauma bond in order to survive the mood swings and bad temper.

@TurquoiseLemur Exactly. My sister was only diagnosed after she had been referred to a psychiatrist by her GP with other problems (anxiety and OCD) and they said she suffered from multiple disorders that were the root of her compulsions. She obviously wasn’t keen on this diagnosis and only told us to laugh at how ridiculous it was. When I told my friend, who is a psychology graduate, she told me she suspected that was the case but didn’t want to be rude and tell me that she thought my sister was suffering from narcissistic personality disorder.

My therapist believes my ex is a narcissist.

He had the combination of a loving, completely unselfish SAHM and a father who seems to be very judgemental and constantly fretting/picking about things. The father would not let the mother go back to work after having children, and even now her life is devoted first and foremost to serving his needs. The father expected my ex to succeed and be exceptional.

My ex was also the first born, and only boy in the family.

I believe that my ex grew up believing that he could not make any mistakes and he must be superlative, but also that as the breadwinner he deserves constant adulation and service from his adoring family/wife.

Just read a novel, 'Playing Nice' by JP Delaney which at first seemed to explore these topics, through babies swapped at birth. It didn't really do much analysis in the end, which was disappointing: I do find the topic nature v nurture very interesting.

@SugarbabyMilly Interesting point:

Children only become narcissists in adulthood. A narcissist is someone who doesn’t grow out of their childish behaviours

@FinallyHere

I've captioned that too as I found it very interesting: Children only become narcissists in adulthood. A narcissist is someone who doesn’t grow out of their childish behaviours.

A while ago when my narc sibling was colluding with our surviving parent in an attempt to con me out of my inheritance I was bewildered as what they were up to.

I had at least one, 'penny drop' moment. Not least that grabbing control of wills and inheritances is in the narcs 'arsenal.' That's really NOT a pun of any sort.

Also I've never understood why sibling felt the need to get in on my relationship with surviving parent. (Whom they never had much time for until they became useful/vulnerable then the manipulation started.)

Narc described my relationship with surviving parent as delicate. Is it ? I didn't know.
Also telling surviving parent that I'm easily hurt. Oh, more governance is it ?

I learned from resources that overseeing sibling relationships with the parent is part of narcissism.

Also, when I learned that narcs have the emotional capabilities of a four year old. I thought, yeah, that explains a lot.

What I will never understand is why do they do it ? Where does it come from ?

We were raised equally. There was no scapegoat/golden child going on. Family life was just family life. Has sibling had it in for me since I was born because my arrival into this world made them feel not good enough ?

I didn't understand what the want want want was all about. Either asking or taking. As child or adult.

Knowing the designer names of things, right down to bath towels. Um, really ?

What the hell is it with narcs and money ? Spending above and beyond their income and not caring until the house of cards came crashing down one day. But sibling and spouse are stronger for the experience, apparently.

I hoped, one day, we could clear the air. Have a breakthrough, cards on the table, bonding moment talk. Nope. Never came. Never going to happen. Why ? Because it's not what they want.

Still the question comes back. Why ? Why are you like this ? Why do you do this ? If you have a sense of internalised shame, then why ?

We were raised the same. What's it all about ?

I catch myself wondering did sibling feel poor ? If so, I don't understand why. In our street and at our school we were always among our peers, our equals. Growing up, as a family we had holidays, we had new clothes, we had gadgets.

Again, I just don't get it.

I know 2 extreme examples. Both were the golden child, spoilt rotten and told they were amazing. Unfortunately when the real world hit and suddenly they met failure or had to face up to their averageness their self esteem suffered and so they started raging, bigging themselves up, manipulating, blaming others, seeking revenge. Everything is always someone else's fault. So I think its a self esteem issue at heart.

Oh and for the record I did get my fair share of surviving now deceased parent's estate. The irony being the one who was trying to grab control of the assets for their own gain, is the one who did the administration !

With breath taking speed I might add.

The fact that they are not speaking to me is pretty much par for the course. Suits their sense of drama I suppose.

I recommend HG Tudor’s narcsite.com

It is fascinating.

Exactly the same as they are as adults!.

I think there are narcissistic children, but it is generally only other children who are on the receiving end of their behaviour.

My experience of a narcissist parent is they are perfectly lovely to you when they need something. Once they have had that the nastiness comes back. They will never accept responsibility for anything going wrong and will cling on to it being other people’s fault. They put a lot of of importance on the things they did get right and will have no tolerance for people who don’t do things the same way, even if their own success basically came down to luck. I didn’t end up as a narcissist because my priorities growing up always came second to hers.

I think full blown narcissism NPD is very rare but narcissistic traits are endemic. I think narcissistic traits often stem from children trying to appease emotionally unavailable/immature parents who show their children zero empathy. Empathy and narcissism sit at different end of the scale from one another IMHO. And empathy is largely learned from seeing empathetic behaviour modelled in childhood.

I second H.G Tudor...very interesting.

I’ve only known one (now dead) who showed absolutely classic signs. Only child, one parent died when he was still very young, so became the centre of the remaining parent’s universe. No neglect or abuse that I ever heard of, and I’m quite sure he’d have told us.

A relative has been diagnosed with NPD. According to their psychiatrists the usual set up is, in childhood, one very punishing and cruel hypercritical parent and one who then tries to make up for the child’s emotional/physical abuse by being very over the top with praise, never saying no, indulging them, giving them an unrealistic view of themselves (ie they are the best at everything, anyone who doesn’t like them is just jealous, they are the most lovable, beautiful, clever child in the world etc). So there’s a very fractured self image, one where they are nothing and a victim of abuse, unloved by a parent and one where they are everything, put on a pedestal and adored without question. To cope, the child comes to believe the more positive view to avoid the trauma and pain of the realities of being a victim of abuse at the hands of a cruel parent. So they develop a false, grandiosed indulged and entitled persona that uses manipulation to get what they want.

My MIL and my aunt. Both were very pretty and indulged children.

Mil was the youngest of 5 and sickly. Aunt was the eldest and eventually became sickly but v pretty and their father died when she was 5, the younger ones don't remember him (one wasn't even born) so she definitely was treated as special. They were very similar according to my parents, even though they never met but they were identical in how they damaged their children (my dh and my cousins) the only difference is that dh had lots of extended family intervention, cousins were sent to boarding school. I think overall DH fared better.

I believe they are born like it. My biological father is one, absolutely awful person who manipulates, plays games with people, hurts people and is completely toxic. He was raised as one of 5 children all raised exactly the same way in a normal home. The others are all decent normal people.

Narcissists by definition have very little self-awareness. If they feel depressed, chronically angry, whatever, they will be holding other people as entirely responsible for that.

I had a narcissistic boss. The first time I thought something was up with her, she threw a fit because a client said that her computer software wasn’t good as it had caused a problem with their appointment.

Another time, I was doing a client’s nails at work. The woman seemed fine and I was chatting to her until my boss approached her and she went cold and made it obvious she didn’t want to speak to her. Then later, my boss had a go at me, saying that I must have caused the client to respond to her this way!!! Completely disordered thinking.

There are some people who are psychopaths though - all psychopaths are also narcissists but not all narcissists are psychopaths.

Isn’t the thinking that narcissism is caused mainly by nurture but psychopathy is something you can just be born with?

Here's one scenario: quite a sensitive child, suffers a major rejection, eg sent off to boarding school too young, then the offending parent overcompensates later by being too indulgent.

I had a close family member who was a narcissist (suffered from NPD, as diagnosed by a qualified professional).

As a child he was SUPER bright, and had a sense of 'self' and headstrong self confidence way beyond his years.

He was accelerated through school, got a top scholarship, and was offered a place at Oxford at 16. Which he turned down with the words "Oxford may want me, but I don't want Oxford".

He was popular, though didn't have any actual 'friends' - he was sporty, but only partook in sports where there was something in it for him (e.g. high tea after cricket, cucumber sandwiches with the rowing club), never sport for sport's sake.

He considered himself an intellectual and a loner, wafted around like a romantic poet.

Interestingly, he was also sent to boarding school in a foreign country (well in the UK but his parents were in Continental Europe) at the age of 7, and only saw his parents, by appointment, for a day or two over the holidays, he was often the only kid left at school (like Ebenezer Scrooge).

As an adult he kept many of those traits, though became more bitter and poisonous. As a child he wasn't unpleasant, or mean, or malicious, he was just very different.

Usually they have poor attachment to one or both parents in childhood and possibly have experienced trauma. They therefore don’t develop a rounded sense of self and manipulate and compete to try and get parental attention and love. Often it works as a strategy some of the time, but they are rejected/neglected at times. So they grow up and replicate the manipulative behaviours - often being very charming and engaging when you first know them (love bombing) but this is known as the ‘fake self’ that they can’t sustain. Then the rejected, insecure side comes out they want their partner to give them attention and positive regard. They will get angry if it is not forthcoming.

These children become narcissistic adults:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/exploringyourmind.com/little-emperor-syndrome-child-tyrants/amp/

Ummm...

Toddlers are narcissistic, it's all about them. Fortunately it's a phase most og us grow out of. Emotionally neglectful or bullying patenting style really fucks up the normal development of relationship transactions and self esteem leading to narcissist adults.

The only true narcissist I know...
Never set boundaries and never told 'no'.
Did as he pleased.
The golden child of the family.
Raised to believe men are far superior to women.
Lack of emotional support from parents.
Focus on money/making money.