What are narcissists like as children?

[DianaT1969]

I see many posts about narcissistic parents and partners on MN. I don't know much about it, but assume that people don't suddenly become narcissists in adulthood. If so, what are they like as children, and at what age does it become apparent?

A family member was born to a 16 year old and brought up by his grandmother. Very little contact with his actual mother until his teenage years, who then both claimed he was a "rape baby" (her words) and went on to sleep with his teenage friends, who mocked him over this. His grandmother brought him up as the golden boy who could do no wrong. His Aunties (brought up as sisters) treated him as the golden boy too. This continued through adulthood. In the end he bled his grandmother dry for money week in, week out for so many years that by the time she died she had no savings at all. He abused his wife and daughters. Got away scot free, even evading court cases as female relatives paid for a barrister. End result: all children estranged, no contact with any grandchildren, still trying to damage the life of his ex wife in any way he can, living relatives still kiss his arse to this day and he's financing his lifestyle off the back of the latest in a long line of women he's manipulated.

My sibling. They are the favourites and told that they are better than the other children in the family and receive special treatment.
The other dc get blamed for things that they actually did because they know that they will be believed.
They never grow out of throwing tantrums.
They bully their siblings or choose their own favourites.

I would say a child develops Narcissist traits as a coping mechanism to deal with a profound sense of shame which is caused by a deep sense of rejection caused by an emotionally unavailable or abusive parent.
They then can develop a fractured self image, either because another parent / adult in their circle indulges them to compensate for the unavailable / abusive parent OR because they are exceptionally talented in some way or simply as a way to survive by believing that they must be 'special' in some way and thus the grandiose side can develop.
But the shame is always underneath and the grandiose / love bombing phase can never last either with other people or with themselves.

Interesting @MyNameForToday1980
I know a person who was very similar as a child.
Now, aged 70 +, has started but not finished a number of degrees, walked out of a Govt Dept, pathway to becoming a Don at Oxford, a number of high profile private Companies, backed out of 2 book deals etc all because they 'didn't quite live up to his expectations'.
I suspect it was really because, despite his obvious academic prowess as a young man, he was scared that he couldn't sustain it as an adult & that he would not be special / loved if that were the case.

Emotionally neglected but materially secure or applied is the theory isn’t it?

Spoiled not applies

@heyyellowyellow ex was in therapy. He needed help for everything that everyone had done to him! His psychiatrist described him as a covert narcissist.
Mother did not see that she needed therapy for anything. Our GP told me to run and not look back when I was in my late teens. He told me her diagnosis, given when she was in hospital for two years at 17.

@Gilead crikey! I guess it’s one of the things I’ve always wondered about - the diagnosis - as I would presume a narcissist would never seek psychological support. Can totally see how the covert narcissist could be in therapy though for everything they think the world has done wrong to them. And your mum, how difficult that must have been for you :(

I smiled at the post of Piers Morgan and then Googled and found a Guardian article around 6 years ago speculating on PM's likely personality disorders (prompted by some disparaging remarks made by PM about mental health).
Then I saw that Piers's brother said Piers used to bully him by niggling at him constantly until he lashed out. No doubt getting the brother in trouble. That has been mentioned on this thread.
I wonder if his relentless hounding of Meghan Markle is the equivalent of a narcissistic ex making life a misery for a partner who dared to escape.
I don't mean to flippantly diagnose the man. He's just a high profile figure who seems to fit the discussion.

Childhood friend's sister was toxic already as a two year old (clear to us as five year olds). Wasn't surprised to find out years later that she is still the same and has left a wake of damaged people in her wake

I’ve often wondered this as my DB was a narcissist and I often worry my eldest DD (who can be selfish) could end up the same. Some of the theories on here sound true (praised for a special talent & golden boy) but I remember him running away when he was about 13 and looking back think it was beginning to show then. There was definitely no neglect though and DP were too skint to overindulge materially. I do think some are born either with it or with a predeposition to it.

I am confident my sister is a narcissist.

People do complain that MNers bandy it about too much and armchair too much, but honestly, reading about it on here was like having a ginormous weight lifted off my shoulders.

As a child she was PFB and an Only for just that bit Too Long and then got two siblings, one quite poorly, very quickly.

It turned her in to a resentful, spiteful bully. She basically couldn't cope with sharing DM and took it out on siblings and DM. DM made it worse by exploiting the resentment into a Divide And Conquer parenting style which pitted us all as rivals. Her own DM parented rivals so it was learned.

She couldn't cope with any attention or praise we got, anything we were bought, anything we achieved, it was always taken as a direct personal slight, particularly as we were both more academic. It would have to be counteracted with nastiness, usually verbal attacks, really vicious ones, to put me or us back in our place. Spoiling family days if someone else got attention - caused a massive public scene once because a friend of my gran bought ME a present, and then tried to blame it all on me because I cried - though she was much older.

Temper Tantrums of a toddler well into adulthood. And this is where the lying began. Her childhood was spun into a Cinderella story to all her uni friends, including exaggerated poverty, when she was very much the villain. She had a lot of friends at one time, they have fallen away, she is unable to maintain a relationship, and I think she just ends up repeatedly being exposed as a manipulative and spiteful liar. Is a malignant tumour of a person in all honesty. The type to try it on with your DH and then try and convince you he'd tried it on with her.

I saw that Piers's brother said Piers used to bully him by niggling at him constantly until he lashed out. No doubt getting the brother in trouble. That has been mentioned on this thread.

Very much this also

And then

"YOU ALWAYS SIDE WITH HER"

"SHE'S HYPERSENSITIVE, SHE'S PARANOID, I'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG"

Still tries that chestnut when I have the rare misfortune to be in her company.

My older sister ....we were told do as she says she is in charge.
So she was very bossy and stuck up.
Hated me or my other sister being praised or being more popular.
According to her everything she got was the best,her friends were better than ours etc.

Went NC with her last year,good ridance

@Cactus1982

My DMs younger sister is a narcissist. She was absolutely spoiled rotten as a child, a surprise late baby born when my grandparents were in their 40’s and presumably they didn’t think they’d have any more children. They completely doted on her and the whole family’s life revolved around her. DM says that my GPs never told her off, she got away with things the rest of them would never have gotten away with and by the time she was a teen she’d developed behaviour issues. Apparently she used to have proper temper tantrums well into her 20’s.

This sounds very much like my ex's mother. Totally indulged. The older siblings had a strict,and religious, upbringing and were teens by the time she was born. She was smoking, drinking, seeing men, clubbing, expelled from school. Married ex's DF (who, come to think of it, was also an indulged golden child by his dm until he died. Gosh. Only just realised that) had 2 dc in quick succession when still a teenager and both parents neglected them totally. If it weren't for their DGM they'd have been in care. Fast forward to when these kids were approaching puberty, and parents long divorced, she got pregnant at 40 just like her dm. This "d"d got spoiled and put on a pedestal. That person is now an adult and the most narcissistic person I've ever met. A sociopath, I reckon. Mother and daughter are best friends and it's frightening watch them scheme together. They've caused a lot of damage and heartache. The pattern repeated again. She had 2 dc very young. Was a wild child. Dc emotionally neglected, but not abused and physically left to fend for themselves like her older siblings were. Can see the damage done to these now adult dc. Oh and she's just had another baby who is totally adored.

I honestly have never known a narcissist.

I don't think they're that common.

My mother is a narcissist, the emotional abuse we had as children by her and my enabling father was awful.
She was the youngest of 5 but although she was close to her father she wasn’t spoilt as far as I am aware. When she was a child she witnessed a sexual assault on her elder sister by their neighbour. I do wonder if that is what triggered the narcissism.
The conversations I have had with my aunt, not the one who was abused, it seems my mother was certainly showing signs of narcissism around the age of 20.

My sister has no contact and I have low contact with my mother, unfortunately old age has not mellowed her she is more manipulative, entitled, verbally abusive to me and physically violent towards my father. Also is now on a warning list at her GP surgery because of her outbursts there!

My Mum's a narcissist. Her siblings say that she was spoilt but she would say that, growing up, she had hardly anything. Plus it would surprise me if there was abuse.

I am currently working with a child who if she were older would be diagnosed as having a personality disorder. Her mother has neglected her emotionally and there has been a lot of instability in the girls life as mum puts her own needs first. I can see the child and how she is already narcissistic. She has had to be to protect herself in her environment. Interestingly she is a teen but regresses to a 4 year old when she is uncomfortable. I have a lot of empathy for her but tbh she scares the shit out of me with some of the things she has done. I believe it is also connected to an attachment disorder. All very sad

My DM was a narcissist which I think came from being the first baby, living with her GPs and aunts and uncles and being ridiculously spoilt by them. She had siblings but she was absolutely favoured even as an adult with a family of her own. I left home and one of her uncles never spoke to me again. In his world I only existed with her.

She constantly felt slighted by her DPs, constantly craved attention from anyone, nothing was ever good enough.

But despite the constant chasing of money, attention and men as she aged she never wanted to go anywhere or do anything.

@ShrikeAttack

I honestly have never known a narcissist.

I don't think they're that common.

Diagnosed Narcissists are not common, no (approx 0.5% of US pop) People with sub-diagnostic levels of narcissistic traits are less rare.

@ScrollingLeaves

“I thought that giving little children a lot of love, support and encouragement was supposed to be the best possible source of their future resilience and ability to form good relationships.”

I think what a lot of these posts suggest is that love, support and encouragement is great, but if paired with emotional/physical abuse or lack of boundaries (only giving encouragement, never giving consequences or limits) then it creates a warped sense of self. I don’t think anyone’s saying loving a child is a bad thing in and of itself.

I think having opposing treatment from two different parents is probably what tips it.
The one person I know with NPD (diagnosed after a brush with the law interestingly....) had an emotionally unstable but highly charismatic father and a super-caring, loving mother who told him he was brilliant all the time and who also depended on him very heavily for her emotional needs.

I think often there is also seemingly no abuse or neglect but the person feels totally misunderstood and not 'seen' as the real them. He was clearly a very closeted gay man, but he was told forcefully that this was ungodly and a sin. So, he grew up thinking there was something fundamentally wrong with him, whilst being told he was marvellous by his mum. That is really going to mess a person up.

@ShrikeAttack

I honestly have never known a narcissist.

I don't think they're that common.

I’ve only met one true narcissist. She was super sweet to me when I first met her and I had no idea it was a mask. As soon as I didn’t play her game her real self came out.

She is a perpetual victim, accuses me of everything she’s subjected me to(projecting) and has told outright lies about me. So many lies. I’m pretty sure most of what she’s told me about herself is a lie so have no idea what her childhood was like. Thank god she’s not family member which makes going no contact easier.

I had to see a psychologist because of the emotional damage she did to me. The psychologist agreed that she most likely has NPD.