New lodger - drama already

[anotheronethreadnamechange]

Just to preface this by explaining that I have never had a lodger before and don't know anyone personally who has lodgers so I don't really know if I'm being mean or not.

The new lodger (I'll call her Jane) only moved in a couple of weeks ago and works away for part of the week doing a training course for now. She would be here all week when the course ends in a couple of weeks, if she passes and will be working shifts as a front line health worker. I thought she would be a good match because of the nature of her job and because she will be doing shifts. Also she came across as being quite sensible/quiet.

It all worked ok aside from a few minor things until the weekend. She left the house at some point in the evening and I was woken up in the early hours to a bit of a racket outside and banging. When I opened the front door she was outside, so drunk that she couldn't speak (despite loud drunken shouting conversation with her mates whilst climbing out a taxi), in pyjamas, and drunkenly swinging a carrier bag full of wine bottles around which was causing the banging and crashing.

She still had not surfaced from her room by 3.30pm the next day, presume still sleeping as I couldn't hear any moving around all day. I went out and got a breezy text from her an hour later along the lines of 'off to work, sorry if I woke you up on my way in last night'. I told her that I actually let her in, which she couldn't remember, and asked her where her keys were. She didn't know, 'think they might be at my friends' but didn't check until I pressed this, and realised then that she doesn't actually know where the keys are, she's lost them.

I got a locksmith out on Monday to change the locks, and she said she would transfer me the money the same day. Still no sign of the money, and she's left my message chasing it on unread. She's actually due back from her course at 2am, and I have no idea whether she plans to just knock on the door for me to let her in or thinks I'm going to leave a key outside for her (I'm not).

I really want to take the stance that I am not letting her back until she's paid the locksmith fee (I've obviously paid the locksmith myself). Would this be awful of me, or justified? Despite some gushing apologies by text on Sunday only when she could see I was a bit pissed off and strange comments about 'I don't drink really, this doesn't happen' (she absolutely does drink, she's had a bit of a drink every night she's been here and asked me several times although I've declined if I want a drink) she obviously isn't as bothered as she says as she's left me to foot the bill for the locks.

it categorically will not get better, she has been totally unreasonable, notice and ditch. There are better people out there.

I wouldn't give her the new key. I'd give her a curfew during her notice period up to which point I'd let her in, otherwise she'd need to stay with a friend for that night. And yes pay the locksmith with her deposit money. Don't know what's legal or not tho I'm afraid!

Just to clarify I didn't mean that I just wouldn't let her back in at all, just not let her in if she rocked up at 2am when she said she was due back from the course (if she hadn't lost the key she could have just let herself in).

She has finally replied to my chasing up message saying she will transfer the money now. Actually that was a while ago and she hasn't yet. And she's now not back until tomorrow evening so that's the 2am problem solved.

I think reasonable notice would be the end of this week given she's only been here for 2 weeks, she's only been here for a few days during that time, her behaviour is unreasonable, and she only has a tiny amount of stuff here?

Yes - give her notice asap before she brings more of her stuff to your house.

@Outbutnotoutout

A lodger has no rights and can be asked to leave immediately.

That isn't true at all.

1. It depends on whether or not there is a contract, an agreement, written or verbal - though a verbal agreement is obviously difficult.

• OP states she has no contract

1. You can't simply fling them out. You do have to be reasonable about it. Reasonable being in the eye of the beholder.

If keys were at a friend or un unidentifiable and lost in Street I wouldn't have bothered with locksmith

My main concern would be being woken up and a HC professional mixing bubbles and potentially bringing covid home

I would give her a weeks notice verbally in person once she's back, and make it clear you need the locksmith money before she moves out. (Ideally get it before giving notice but they may not be possible and you have to accept she may never pay you. Hopefully you can chase the sum before she arrives back by continuing to ask for it until she pays)
Next time, sort out a contract and try and get references or something. She sounds utterly nightmarish.

@nitsandwormsdodger

If keys were at a friend or un unidentifiable and lost in Street I wouldn't have bothered with locksmith

My main concern would be being woken up and a HC professional mixing bubbles and potentially bringing covid home

But the house insurance can be void in these circumstances if you don't change the locks.

Also I know really nothing about her or who she was with that night.

@Hope4theBestPlan4theWorst

Oh *@anotheronethreadnamechange* That sounds dreadful

I'd just say to her, Jane we need a chat

Then sit her down tell her this isn't working out, get the money for the locksmiths off her and give her notice - job done

This!

1. She is socialising against lockdown rules and thereby potentially bringing infection into your home, putting you at risk
2. She has lost her keys
3. She has not reimbursed you despite promising to do so and your reminders
4. She has lied about drinking

Any of these, as a one-off and with a heartfelt apology, I might be able to overlook but cumulatively it's too much. Get rid.

@Throwntothewolves

Get rid. She's irresponsible with your property (keys) and behaviour (out drinking with friends in a lockdown), and clearly doesn't care if it impacts you at all. Plus she claims she doesn't drink yet was wasted the other day and has been drinking most nights you've seen her, as well as trying to get you to join her. I wouldn't be surprised if she has an alcohol problem (classic signs, denial, minimising, getting others to do the same).

This. Has alcohol problems written all over it. Not your circus, not your monkeys. in the absence of a monkey emoticon.

You would be an absolute IDIOT to let her stay.

This is her on the first flipping week, best behaviour.

Don't give her another key. Just tell her to collect her stuff - give her until the end of the weekend to get out. If she has no key, she's not going to try and fuck about with that.

She doesn't have a leg to stand on legally, especially with the lost keys in the mix. You can give a lodger notice for any reason at all. You can quite reasonably say the trust is gone before it's even been built up and you're not willing to have her in the house for any longer than it takes for her to get her stuff packed up. She asks for keys, you smile and say no need, I'm in all the time until you go.

What kind of lock is it? Most are really easy to switch out yourself without a locksmith. Just buy the right kind of barrel or mortice lever to swap it with.

For the casual attitude toward the security of MY home where I should feel safe is reason enough to ask her to leave. However if you feel in your gut that she is genuine sorry and believe she has learnt from it then you could let her know this is the last time this behaviour will be tolerated and next time she’s out without notice. Then follow through.

Having had many lodgers over the years I’ve found that how they start is how they mean to go on . Definitely get rid .

@Nearlyhalfterm

Did you take a deposit? If so I would give her notice and take the locksmith out of that. I don't think you are suddenly going to start feeling more secure about her living with you.

This. Moral rectitude means staying within the terms of the agreement you both came to. This solution does that, and solves your problem.

Assuming you are in England I’d be extremely annoyed that she was out at a friends getting pissed, especially as she’s front line health care.

@anotheronethreadnamechange

OP, you need to get tough and nip this in the bud right now.

'However, she's working in a health professional role with vulnerable people and is still going out drinking with her mates (where do you even go in a lockdown?) and obviously then coming back into this house afterwards. '

She is behaving unprofessionally and putting herself, her clients and you at risk.
Tell her that unless she sorts herself out you'll be reporting her to her professional organisation and she could be disciplined.
Give her reasonable notice and ask her to pay you for the keys/change of locks before she goes.

This type of behaviour makes me see red at any time but in a Pandemic it's inexcusable.

I read a thread the other day from a poster with lodger problems, based on that I'd ask her to go now, who wants drama in their own home

I don’t think you can literally lock her out at 2am despite this behaviour, even if you could, it’s not right to do that to someone even if they’ve inconvenienced you. Why don’t you ask her now how she plans to get back in at that time instead of passively waiting to see?

I would then go up to her when at home, even with a card reader in your hand, and say “can you transfer that money now?” When she says “yes I will” say “No, I mean now.” and make her do it then and there. I’d do that before giving her notice because otherwise she probably won’t pay you back. But perfectly reasonable to kick her out with a couple of weeks notice otherwise, she sounds a nightmare. I’ve had lodgers for years although admittedly always people I knew first. My parents have had lodgers for decades but never had this issue.

Presumably this is her on her best behaviour as she's just moved in. Not a chance would I be waiting to see what happens as she settles in.

I would be direct and contact her now to find out what time she will be back. You will only lie awake dreading a 2am knock anyway, so at least you will either a) know what time and can make a call about what you do or b) if she doesn’t reply but turns up, then you can rest knowing you have grounds for not answering the door and enabling her endlessly shitty behaviour. And then of course, next day, inform her she’s out.

Oh and her mum has spare rooms? Hmm I wonder why??? I suspect even her own mother has got fed up of her behaviour.

She clearly has a problem with alcohol. (Claiming that she doesn't drink when she's doing it every day is a huge red flag, imo.) That combined with breaking rules to mix with friends and failing to pay you back immediately would tell me she's not a good lodger.

I'd get her out of the house ASAP.

I'm usually one to give people a second chance but I wouldn't in this instance, she's not going to improve.