Can white people ever experience racism?

[LittleRedCourgettes]

Following a discussion on this topic with some students, I was reading this article and am interested to hear your honest thoughts on this question.....

https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/wherediddwegetttheideaathatonlyywhitepeopleecanbeeracist

@ReggieKrait

Frogartist completely agree. I’ve given up trying to explain this as I don’t think I could have been any clearer in my (many) posts.

If people insist on creating their own definition of something that has already been
defined in law, then there is no point continuing with the argument. There are too many possible tangents, most of which are of course completely valid but detract from the point.

To summarise:

1 White people can be victims of racism.

2 White people are subject to minimal racism
compared to BAME people, and any racism they do suffer is certainly not comparable to the institutional racism BAME individuals have experienced for generations.

3 Stating that a certain race cannot be a victim of racism contravenes laws put in place to protect EVERYONE from discrimination.

I wouldn't call the racism towards Romany as minimal and we are white, and BAME, by definition.

@Gwenhwyfar - So by your definition, national sport where you promote and encourage tribalism is inherently racists, regardless of who competes or their skin colour, because you are promoting and encouraging nationalism and the opinion that your nation is superior to other nations and will demonstrate it in sport.

If it is the case that holding an opinion about nationality is racist, then who gives a F about racism, because by your definition of racism, every single person on the planet is a racists and can do nothing about it.

I think the intent to minimise actual racism and conflate it with other behaviours, such as is being done here on this thread, with the obvious intent of downplaying actual racism, is evidence of just how racist some people are, and how they are making out that it is normal and acceptable behaviour because look, the law isn't clear, so I can do this and it isn't racist.

I’ve lived in several countries and visited many more. I have only had xenophobic comments whilst living in England. I’m Scottish and fairly thick skinned, but always found the xenophobia was presented as a joke and that I obviously didn’t have a sense of humour.

As a disclaimer, I am in no way saying that all English are racist/ xenophobic or that it doesn’t happen in the other countries I’ve been to, this is we’re I have experienced it.

Of course white people can experience racism. People who don’t have white skin are equally as capable of having derogatory opinions and showing them as those who do. Racism isn’t something that’s confined to the UK and other similarly culturally western countries.

I’m white, and mixed race. I’ve experienced incidences of racism for being white in other countries and in this country while in the company of people who aren’t white. I’ve also experienced racism directed at my non white British side by people who don’t know. But I don’t think that’s the same as experiencing systemic racism where BAME people are less likely to be offered a job for example. It comes in different forms.

I have a work colleague who plays the race card whenever she gets the chance. She well paid, and has no competition in the business as she is the only person employed to fulfil her roll. However, she claims people don't listen to her opinion at meeting because of her race, but it is more likely because she cannot say anything with any conviction, cannot back what she says up with fact, and cannot explain coherently the mechanic behind her assumptions (she's an engineer). I make no claims as to her competence, and as I say, she is employed for a function that she is capable if doing.

Likewise, she claims she is racially profiled by other drivers when she drives and is often waves at with only one finger. She believes this to be racism. Having travelled to a meeting with her, I found that she would decelerate and accelerate randomly for no apparent reason, slow down a half mile before a roundabout and creep towards it, cursing the traffic that would swing past her and pull back in front, and sit at roundabouts stationary until such times as the traffic had cleared for her to use it.

Now, I don't think that being a bad driver is evidence of racism, but I do think blaming the way people treat you in life because of the type of person you are, on racism, is in and of itself racist towards others.

Yes, definitely. In the words of my Indian ex's parents (in front of me but acting like I wasn't in the room) "you can't marry her, she's white." They were people in their late 40s and born in the U.K, my grandma in her 90s, who was white British, was nothing but welcoming and enthusiastic towards him and thought nothing of him being a different race to me. Some people are twats, in every race, age group and culture.

@Babdoc

dementedma, absolutely agree. But according to whyyyyyythough, it isn’t racism! Presumably she thinks the Scots should get a free pass to racially abuse the English.

The Scottish people and the English people are not a race, you idiot! That is why.

When I lived in Australia, I was told that I shouldn't be there as I was taking their jobs.

When it's said that 'all white people are racist' it doesn't mean we all secretly hate ethnic minorities. It means that white people have been raised in a racist society, enjoyed the benefits of racism and white privilege. Let's face it, we DO benefit from racism every day of our lives.

As soon as white people hear that we immediately get defensive and deflect it back as "well ethnic minorities can be racist too" because its hard work to recognise your privilege and social conditioning. I think once it's acknowledged, it will open up room for wider discussion and hopefully make some meaningful changes in society. I have no idea what the communist part was at the end.

You are not in full possession of all the information you should be to be spouting this rhetoric. I know it all makes perfect sense to you @Mandalakia but there are certain political groups and figures who are behind this with very specific long term aims and goals and you are doing their work for them when you subscribe to these beliefs and disseminate them without thinking critically about them.

@HmmSureJan You seem to be hinting at some sort of conspiracy or political agenda. Would you explain what it is?

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@ElliFAntspoo
The Rotherham scandal is a perfect example of racism but not in the way that has been suggested here. The victims were not exclusively white, or even the majority of victims

Not the case, the victims were almost exclusively white. You seem to be confusing countries. The U.K. is not the US.[/quote]
I was quoting another poster.
Not my quote. Read the post.

@Mandalakia

With all respect, no I won't actually, I've come to my conclusions over months and months or reading and listening to others, far more highly educated than me who know much more than I do. Find out for yourself. Start with post modern philosophy and work from there. No "conspiracy" because it's actually playing out right in front of us and also I find that label is generally used to ridicule and suggest that the person cannot be taken seriously. Political agenda though? Definitely.

There is definitely a political agenda to this. I agree people should look into it themselves. It's not hard to do.

Ok, then I guess it's the claim that blm is actually a Marxist movement and a Co-founder has ties to a Chinese communist group?

I have read about that. My conclusion was that it was a wonderful piece of disinformation that the right wing media used to discredit blm. Ask the average supporter of blm if they have communist ambitions and I very much doubt they will. I'm not saying the movement as a whole is perfect, of course its open to corruption, hidden agendas, etc. But I wouldn't discredit the whole of blm and critical race theory because of an unproven claim in the right wing media.

"The Scottish people and the English people are not a race, you idiot! That is why."

There is no agreed definition of what is a race.

"@Gwenhwyfar - So by your definition, national sport where you promote and encourage tribalism is inherently racists, regardless of who competes or their skin colour, because you are promoting and encouraging nationalism and the opinion that your nation is superior to other nations and will demonstrate it in sport."

Erm, no. I never said anything like that.

"
If it is the case that holding an opinion about nationality is racist"

I never said that either.

"I think the intent to minimise actual racism and conflate it with other behaviours, such as is being done here on this thread, with the obvious intent of downplaying actual racism,"

What is "actual racism" as defined by the law?

The UK's Equality Act defines race like this:
Race includes—
(a)colour;
(b)nationality;
(c)ethnic or national origins.
Being treated detrimentally because of any of these things is unlawful race discrimination.

I've been treated detrimentally because of my colour (an assumption that I was a prostitute or as good as, on a number of occasions, despite being very modestly dressed) and on the grounds of my nationality - I remember phoning up about an advert to rent a room when I was in Germany, and the landlady telling me that she would only consider me if no-one else wanted the room. That was purely due to my UK accent.

I have read about that. My conclusion was that it was a wonderful piece of disinformation that the right wing media used to discredit blm

It was on the blm website. Theres also video footage of the one of the founders describing themselves as trained Marxists.

Hardly disinformation when they're putting it out there themselves.

Yes absolutely.

“We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk,”

This was the full quote. It sounds more like she is educated on political and ideological movements and used her knowledge to build the blm movement. Not that she's plotting a communist take over.

Absolutely. I grew up in the 80s. I was referred to as chinky in school for years. I have black hair and oriental shaped eyes. But I am 100% white. Then in the 90s I dated a black boy. The worst form of racism I ever encountered was from his family.

@peak2021

How were Irish people treated in England probably up until this century (and in some cases may still be)? Signs in the seventies 'no dogs, no blacks, no Irish'? I'd call that racism.

This is also my argument @peak2021 although it’s better it’s still around.

There is also racism against whites in general from some races, I grew up in a very multicultural city, where we lived there was a large Asian population. Just walking down the street I’d get abused, white slag, slut whore. This was from a young age. They knew my name as I went to school with their sisters/daughters. It definitely effected how I feel about Asian men.

These days there is a lot of racism against certain white European groups.

Not that she's plotting a communist take over.

Sounds to me like you could do with carrying out a little more research on that tbh.

@Hettia why's that?