Can white people ever experience racism?

[LittleRedCourgettes]

Following a discussion on this topic with some students, I was reading this article and am interested to hear your honest thoughts on this question.....

https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/wherediddwegetttheideaathatonlyywhitepeopleecanbeeracist

Cressida Dick is still in position after Charles de Menenez was shot. ( He was brown skinned walking out of a building with hundreds of residents.

Charles De Menezes was not "brown skinned" and this happened at a time when there had recently been dreadful terrorist incidents where 52 people were killed and multiple injuries - two weeks previously. The day prior to the shooting there had been more attempted attacks though thankfully these failed and the suspects had escaped. Security services were on high alert. Menezes lived in the flats that corresponded to an address that had been found in the bag of one of the suspects of those failed attacks and was incorrectly identified as one of the suspects. I'm making no excuses for it, it was a terrible tragedy but it is wholly inaccurate to say the shooting happened because of "brown skin".

@HmmSureJan
My only concern is who decides? That's always been my concern and I suspect it's the main concern of many onlookers who are uncomfortable with the self appointed social justice marshals directing these operations and unilaterally deciding which statues and monuments should be toppled or defaced. And then when you do express these concerns, if you're not articulate enough you're automatically dismissed as racist and hectored into explaining why you're uncomfortable with crowds of people rampaging around, committing criminal damage etc. There are definitely some statues that need to go but I think the discomfort with these actions is often more to do with wondering just how far this behaviour will be allowed to go and why the mob gets to decide.

I agree, especially about the lawlessness and vandalization. It's totally wrong. That's why I wrote: "...removed properly" in my post. This should be properly done - I have no idea how exactly. Mob justice (though I can sometimes understand why some people feel the need to take that route) isn't the way to go and only leaves room for arseholes to do what they want anyway, not necessarily caring about the real issue at hand.

On the other hand, there are some whose only reason for opposing anything to do with the statues is simply to oppose anything. They're not exactly thinking about the right way to remove them or if some should be removed at all. I suspect these are the sort of people some 'pro-removers' have in mind when (wrongly) dismissing anyone who is against it.

I suspect it's a case of each side seeing the worst in the other and not being able to have a peaceful conversation about it. No one from either side would give the other a chance, certainly not the extremists from either side. You then have some stuck in the middle with no answers, no going forward or backward.

Wow! What has coldasfish been writing? That's a lot of deleted posts.

Goady racist shit mostly!

I suspect they were a troll intent on disrupting the thread. I should think they've been banned now. They certainly deserve to be.

@Afromeg

Wow! What has coldasfish been writing? That's a lot of deleted posts.

She agreed that Floyd deserved what happened to him because of his previous criminal history.

Yes . Irish people for one experienced racism

@HmmSureJan

Cressida Dick is still in position after Charles de Menenez was shot. ( He was brown skinned walking out of a building with hundreds of residents.

Charles De Menezes was not "brown skinned" and this happened at a time when there had recently been dreadful terrorist incidents where 52 people were killed and multiple injuries - two weeks previously. The day prior to the shooting there had been more attempted attacks though thankfully these failed and the suspects had escaped. Security services were on high alert. Menezes lived in the flats that corresponded to an address that had been found in the bag of one of the suspects of those failed attacks and was incorrectly identified as one of the suspects. I'm making no excuses for it, it was a terrible tragedy but it is wholly inaccurate to say the shooting happened because of "brown skin".

Is it? Did he look like the suspect in any way? This is the difference. If it was your son, I don’t think you would accept that explanation. His parents didn’t either.

Interesting... SMH.

There's been 2 or 3 already coming on to post obviously inflammatory remarks. Wonder if it's the same person name-changing?

@PlanDeRaccordement.
I had but it is good news. Funnily enough one of my sons is quite interested in the police force as a career. It makes me a little nervous having heard first hand accounts from high ranking individuals relating their own experiences. I’ll be proud of him though if he does choose it.

Is it? Did he look like the suspect in any way? This is the difference. If it was your son, I don’t think you would accept that explanation. His parents didn’t either.

That's not what you were saying though. You said he was shot because he was "brown skinned" but he wasn't brown skinned and there were significant and exceptional circumstances that led to his shooting, which you left out in your wish to make this a shooting based on race.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@HmmSureJan
Thank you. I’ve been liking your posts as well.[/quote]
Awww, get a room, you two

Sorry

@HmmSureJan

Is it? Did he look like the suspect in any way? This is the difference. If it was your son, I don’t think you would accept that explanation. His parents didn’t either.

That's not what you were saying though. You said he was shot because he was "brown skinned" but he wasn't brown skinned and there were significant and exceptional circumstances that led to his shooting, which you left out in your wish to make this a shooting based on race.

Again, in what way did he ‘ look like’ the Asian suspect?

It’s like two people go for a walk, one gets an unjustifiable fine from the police and yet the person who is blamed is the person who didn’t get fined and all the energy is put into making that person feel like they are in the wrong when it is the police (or the systems) that are wrong.

I like this analogy. A simple way of looking at how misdirected the anger regarding white privilege is.

I get the anger but don't see why individuals should be vilified for something they didn't choose and in most cases, aren't intentionally participating in anymore than an able-bodied person is intentionally participating in a society where people with disabilities have fewer opportunities and less support.

She agreed that Floyd deserved what happened to him because of his previous criminal history.

Ah, I see. They needed to ramp it up to get the desired reaction. Trolling 101. Best roll your eyes and move on - power rests in silence at this point.

@Afromeg
It is a good point. This thread might be a bit of an indicator of where some of the anger is arising though. There is a lot of denial about quite frankly straightforward issues. The education secretary was on Radio 4 recently and himself brought up the under predictions of black student grades. The shooting of Charles de Menezes has caused anger right from the beginning due to the clearly low bar set in terms of identification.

@Blackberrycream

The IQ level of this site seems to be in free fall.

Mumsnet has no privilege?

Not yet...

I’m not sure if you are meaning that to be as sinister as it sounds @Wotapolava

Again, in what way did he ‘ look like’ the Asian suspect?

But I never said he did. Why do you keep asking me that?

Again, I was responding to your initial assertion that he was "brown skinned" and that's why he was suspected and subsequently shot. He wasn't, yet you haven't acknowledged that. Why not?

@HmmSureJan
He was Brazilian and did have a darker skin tone.
On what basis do you think the identification was made( because he clearly did not look like the suspect unless all vaguely brown people look the same to the person in question )?

I'm not sure on what basis it was made. I read at the time that he was wearing similar clothing. Yet again, I was responding to your assertion that it was because he was "brown skinned". He wasn't as the photo I attached shows, many other photos show. You asserted that his was a racist killing on the basis of brown skin and that Cressida Dick should have been sacked over it. It clearly wasn't because he wasn't brown skinned. Personally I think he had dark hair, similar clothes and the people directly involved were terrified of another attack happening and more people being slaughtered and overreacted accordingly. A dreadful tragedy but not based on "there's a brown skinned man quick shoot him!"

From what I’ve seen of the thread I don’t think there is an awful lot of denial. Most of not all posters agree that systematic racism is a real problem in the U.K. they do not agree that racism purely occurs from white people towards people of differing skin colour but that it is more complex and can be from white to white, from black to white, Asian to Asian and practically every variation there is. It’s sad but the human disposition is to be negative towards anyone who does not fit within your culture, background, national identity and image and this should be challenged as racist wherever it occurs. The meaning of what constitutes racism was disagreed as some posters wanted to limit it, in my opinion the dictionary definition is correct.
People deny white privilege as the communication of it including it’s very name is misrepresentative of the message it seeks to convey and is misdirected towards individuals rather than systems which perpetrate it.

@HmmSureJan
The identification bar was extremely low.
The bar would not have been so low for a white suspect.
These are not my assertions. This was widely discussed at the time.

Most of not all posters agree that systematic racism is a real problem in the U.K.

I don't believe that systemic racism is a real problem in the UK. I would agree that there can be and is racism on an individual level.

@Blackberrycream
There is a lot of denial about quite frankly straightforward issues. The education secretary was on Radio 4 recently and himself brought up the under predictions of black student grades.

Did you have a chance to read the report I posted? It researched thousands of students and found that all things being equal, white students were the most likely of all ethnic groups to be under predicted. So it’s not that I’m denying researched facts....

Yes black students do get under predicted too, but they are not the most affected by systematic bias that goes against high achieving economically disadvantaged students. At least not around 2016 as that’s the date of the study I found and posted. Do you have any reports or more recent studies to support your statements?