Can white people ever experience racism?

[LittleRedCourgettes]

Following a discussion on this topic with some students, I was reading this article and am interested to hear your honest thoughts on this question.....

https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/wherediddwegetttheideaathatonlyywhitepeopleecanbeeracist

Frogartist completely agree. I’ve given up trying to explain this as I don’t think I could have been any clearer in my (many) posts.

If people insist on creating their own definition of something that has already been
defined in law, then there is no point continuing with the argument. There are too many possible tangents, most of which are of course completely valid but detract from the point.

To summarise:

1 White people can be victims of racism.

2 White people are subject to minimal racism
compared to BAME people, and any racism they do suffer is certainly not comparable to the institutional racism BAME individuals have experienced for generations.

3 Stating that a certain race cannot be a victim of racism contravenes laws put in place to protect EVERYONE from discrimination.

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@Gwenhwyfar - there is a definition of all those terms in law.[/quote]
What terms? What do you mean?

@Gwenhwyfar

"How dumb do people have to be not to understand the difference between 'race', 'sex' and 'nationality'?"

The law doesn't differentiate, so it's not dumb is it?

So, in your head, because the law doesn't differentiate, then if a man and a woman get paid differently for the same job, then its racist? Racism does not need to have anything to do with race? Just because the law does not define the word 'race' does not meant you can read anything you want into it. The boy across the street gets bullied at school because he's smaller than other kids. Clearly its racism and the fact that the teacher hasn't stopped it means she is a racist too. Completely irrelevant that they are all the same ethnicity and skin colour. Clearly racism against white people.

Your justification for painting everything as racism has to be the most racist thing I've read in a while.

@ReggieKrait - I don’t agree that discrimination or racial violence directed at white people is necessarily any less serious. For example, the racially motivated murder of Kriss Donald- a 15 year old white boy who was tortured, set on fire and murdered because he was white in Glasgow.

Discrimination and racial attacks are a spectrum of behaviour and can affect everyone in the most to the least serious. In the UK it’s likely that minority groups are more affected than whites but whites can suffer all types of racism from the most serious to the relatively minor.

Not of course to minimise the experience of other groups at all. But we should not think racially motivated murder or rape of a white person is less serious because they are white. It isn’t.

Also systematic or organisation racism can come up whenever there is a particular culture in an organization which favours one racial group. In the UK that’s usually white people but I can tell you from doing discrimination law that its certainly not always white people even in the uk.

@Gwenhwyfar - the terms race, sex and nationality.

I am a white British person and experienced racism when I lived abroad, it was specifically in the work place though rather than round every corner.

@CayrolBaaaskin I agree that racism against white people is not less serious -when I used the word “minimal” I meant more in terms of the volume of racist abuse experienced by white people compared to BAME individuals; not that racist incidents against whites should be “minimised”. Apologies if it read wrong.

Because it doesn't adhere to the left "woke" definition of racism which has further goals that they don't really want you to know about just yet. These goals involve making white people carry the weight of historic racism, asserting that all white people are inherently racist no matter what their attitudes and behaviour, so cannot experience racism themselves and if they try to defend themselves then that just means they're racist too. This is all part of a larger plan to sow division and anger and break down western cultural society in order to replace it with communism, which will definitely work this time

When it's said that 'all white people are racist' it doesn't mean we all secretly hate ethnic minorities. It means that white people have been raised in a racist society, enjoyed the benefits of racism and white privilege. Let's face it, we DO benefit from racism every day of our lives.

As soon as white people hear that we immediately get defensive and deflect it back as "well ethnic minorities can be racist too" because its hard work to recognise your privilege and social conditioning. I think once it's acknowledged, it will open up room for wider discussion and hopefully make some meaningful changes in society. I have no idea what the communist part was at the end.

@cameocat

I am a white British person and experienced racism when I lived abroad, it was specifically in the work place though rather than round every corner.

Me too. I don't dispute that it exists. Lee Rigby for example here in the UK.

The problem with this thread is the divisiveness of all the people who have never experienced racism and don't actually know what it is, claiming they experience racism because they have been to Scotland, or because they were bullied by someone.

These people are either plain ignorant, or they are deliberately trying to diminish racism and conflate it with nationalism or bullying because they wish to undermine the recognition of racism in society, for their own hate agendas.

I lived in South East London for a while and remember walking out of a shop only to be shoved from behind violently to the ground. When I struggled up a black woman shouted in my face 'fuck off you white bitch' and she walked off. I was stunned.
I don't know if this was racism? I am white.

Of course they can. I am white and have experienced racism in my halls of residence as the only white person. I taught English on the Indian subcontinent and experienced racism.

I’m Scottish living in England and when I first moved here 35 years ago the racism towards me from the elderly community was shocking, obviously not everyone but their where plenty who thought nothing of being rude to my face.

I’ve twice been accused of breaking up the uk again by 0APs (didn’t realise I was so powerful).
It’s really shocking when it happens but I remember that I’ve met thousands of people who are lovely so will not let a dozen bigoted racists make me think everyone is.
It’s the same in Scotland my English husband and children have not experienced racism but it is there but it’s the minority remember that.

@cicelyella maybe @ElliFAntspoo can answer your question. I am genuinely interested to see what their response might be.

I think they can, even in a majority white country like the UK. But while it would be distressing on a personal level, the wider context remains that white people as a group are at a significant advantage compared to non-whites at a societal level and so I don't think it can be equated to white racism to non-whites.

@cicelyella

I lived in South East London for a while and remember walking out of a shop only to be shoved from behind violently to the ground. When I struggled up a black woman shouted in my face 'fuck off you white bitch' and she walked off. I was stunned. I don't know if this was racism? I am white.

Sounds like racism to me.

God that Kriss Donald case is horrific. That poor boy.

But whether it’s Kriss Donald, Stephen Lawrence, Lee Rigby, girls in Rotherham, George Floyd, these crimes are usually committed by men.

Surely that should be what the question is and where the answers lie. Yet somehow it’s the Karens who are held up for ridicule and condemnation.

@ReggieKrait - But then, maybe people here want to argue that that is just bullying, or sexism. The fact that so many people here willingly decide that they do not wish to separate bullying, sexism, nationalism and racism, and want to label them all racist, maybe that is why you are having a problem distinguishing between racism and other types of bigoted behaviour.

@Letsrunabath

I’m Scottish living in England and when I first moved here 35 years ago the racism towards me from the elderly community was shocking, obviously not everyone but their where plenty who thought nothing of being rude to my face. I’ve twice been accused of breaking up the uk again by 0APs (didn’t realise I was so powerful). It’s really shocking when it happens but I remember that I’ve met thousands of people who are lovely so will not let a dozen bigoted racists make me think everyone is. It’s the same in Scotland my English husband and children have not experienced racism but it is there but it’s the minority remember that.

That isn't racism. Scottish people are not a different race from English people. Maybe a dictionary would help you distinguish between nationalism, bigotry, bullying and racism. If it was an elderly gentlemen then maybe you'll want to call it sexism. But labelling things that are not racists and being racists is a very racist thing to do, because it is divisive and it diminished both the people who do experience racism and minimises their experiences.

Well I dated an Asian guy his family originally from Pakistan. I was a total secret as the family would not like him dating outside his culture. I have seen that happen numerous times. I guess that’s racism?

@Twintub

Well I dated an Asian guy his family originally from Pakistan. I was a total secret as the family would not like him dating outside his culture. I have seen that happen numerous times. I guess that’s racism?

Him dating you isn't racism.

Him not introducing you to his family is at best an assumption of racism only (him assuming his family are going to be racist), and at worst him being racists because the was embarrassed by you and wouldn't want his family to meet you. But you cannot say that they ARE racist actions because they are assumptions and you don't know the facts.

So an assumed racist reaction, but not one based in fact.

ElliFA bit fucking rude. I never actually used the words racist in the treatment towards me and used bullying. You even quoted the post where I say this and then say I'm wrong 🤷‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️

I started off by saying I think they can.

Then have an example of the bullying I received because of my country of birth and explained that it was ingrained from childhood due to upbringing.

This is what can lead to racism. From either side.

@RomeoLikedCapuletGirls

God that Kriss Donald case is horrific. That poor boy.

But whether it’s Kriss Donald, Stephen Lawrence, Lee Rigby, girls in Rotherham, George Floyd, these crimes are usually committed by men.

Surely that should be what the question is and where the answers lie. Yet somehow it’s the Karens who are held up for ridicule and condemnation.

It doesn't help when Karen complains that her kids snowman in the public street is kicked by a binman, gets his sacked, and then troops her entire family into the press and bleats on about her feelings for her moment in the spotlight with her cuck hubby.

There will not be many people calling their daughters Karen for many decades because of all these raciest bigoted people, whether you like the name Karen being attached to such behaviour or not. Fact remains that the name stuck because of one such, and each new one who is called Karen just adds another nail in the coffin of the nomenclature.

@itsgettingweird - This is what can lead to racism. From either side.
How?

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@Gwenhwyfar - the terms race, sex and nationality.[/quote]
Ah, but discrimination on the basis of ethnic origin and nationality comes under racism laws as others have mentioned already.

"So, in your head, because the law doesn't differentiate, then if a man and a woman get paid differently for the same job, then its racist? Racism does not need to have anything to do with race? Just because the law does not define the word 'race' does not meant you can read anything you want into it. The boy across the street gets bullied at school because he's smaller than other kids. Clearly its racism and the fact that the teacher hasn't stopped it means she is a racist too. Completely irrelevant that they are all the same ethnicity and skin colour. Clearly racism against white people.

Your justification for painting everything as racism has to be the most racist thing I've read in a while."

I missed the word sex in your sentence. Obviously that doesn't come under racism but discrimination based on ethnic or national origin does.