Can white people ever experience racism?

[LittleRedCourgettes]

Following a discussion on this topic with some students, I was reading this article and am interested to hear your honest thoughts on this question.....

https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/wherediddwegetttheideaathatonlyywhitepeopleecanbeeracist

I agree with the PP about the bigotry towards English people in Scotland.

I was born in Scotland but lived in England until I was ten.

My English accent led to bullying by kids and teachers alike.

A drunk man got aggressive towards me in a pub, which was very frightening.

I could go on.

Sure, e.g. if they live in a country where they are a tiny minority.

Depends what definition you are using. Of course we can experience prejudice and discrimination based on the colour of our skin, anyone of any ethnicity can, but in certain contexts 'racism' has a specific definition which means something a bit different.

Just as men can experience prejudice and discrimination due to being men, but I would not agree that they can be victims of sexism in our society, not as I interpret sexism. I would struggle to agree that as a white woman I could be a victim of racism in our society. Affected by individual acts of bigotry, yes, but a victim of racism? No.

Individual acts of bigotry are exactly what constitutes racism. Why are we so determined not to call a spade a spade. Prejudice is a two way street.

Just to add another perception, as a Scottish person living in England I have experienced racism from English people. Sneered at, told to go home, screamed at for voting for independence (I didn’t), Discriminated and singled out at university due to my accent. Not to mention all the times people won’t accept my money in shops and cafes. There is a bakery in Drotwich Spa which has a notice on the door which says they will not serve anyone with Scottish notes, this was in 2018. As someone whose mother came from England, and Father from Scotland I would rather we just treated everyone with respect regardless of colour, age, sex, or anything else!

Of course. Easter Europeans often are, especially if they don't speak the language of have a strong accent.

Yes of course and sadly like all forms of racism this happens daily

In Spain, yes, many, many times.

I have been told 'to go back to my own country' that I am 'an alcoholic'
I was definitely left out at the school gate. Ostracised.

Awful. Have lived here 15 years and my DD born here and DH Spanish.
I do not live near Benidorm. Not in a tounristy area.

@Lycopodium8

Yes. The girls abused in Rotherham were targeted becuase they were white and considered easy

And unfortunately it’s still going on.

Any one can be racist and anyone can experience it.

My sons teacher told him black People can't be racist. That's wrong anyone can be. At the end of the day we are all human and black/white people can both be racist. All racisim should be taken seriously it should not be more/less important due to your skin color

Yes, I've had to sit and bite my tongue while with students who have sat discussing how all white women are whores and sluts.

It depends how you define racism. To me, it is discrimination by those with more structural power, so a black person can discriminate against a white person, but it isn't racism as there isn't a power imbalance. White people have historically always had the power tipped in their favour.
Travellers and Eastern Europeans experience a lot of discrimination (often by other white people) but as they are all white I don't think it is correct to call it racism, as they are all racially similar.

I had much derogatory language and a couple of instances of downright abuse due to being Scottish when was living in England. I do recognise however that this was a minority of idiots, scumbags.

But yes, white people can experience racism.

@SuperLoudPoppingAction

I personally think it's helpful to distinguish between racism and xenophobia but the equality act is quite broad in how it defines race. Ethnic or national origin from what I remember. So it depends how you define racism.

Yes, this.

I certainly experienced fairly widespread microaggressions, xenophobia, street abuse, and negative stereotyping as an Irish person living for 20 years in various parts of the UK, but obviously I 'pass' until someone registers my name and/or accent, as I am a white Irish person.

Though I suspect that the type of person who made no secret of thinking it was just hilarious that some oiky priest-ridden bogger was at Oxford, or repeatedly indicated the site of an IRA bomb, planted when I was a small child, and said 'Your lot did that. Proud, are you?' would have their mind blown if confronted by the existence of black Irish people.

I don't personally conflate the kind of ethnically-based unpleasantness I experienced with racism, because it wasn't structural as such, and it was from other white people, but if someone was looking into the treatment of white Irish people in the UK by the police and judiciary in the fairly recent past being pulled aside at airports and ferries and searched it muddies the distinction a bit. Though again, they had to hear an accent or see a passport, as it wasn't a distinction made on skin colour. No one could have stopped and searched us on the street on the grounds of appearance alone.

@breatheslowandtrust

It depends how you define racism. To me, it is discrimination by those with more structural power, so a black person can discriminate against a white person, but it isn't racism as there isn't a power imbalance. White people have historically always had the power tipped in their favour. Travellers and Eastern Europeans experience a lot of discrimination (often by other white people) but as they are all white I don't think it is correct to call it racism, as they are all racially similar.

I get what you mean by the power balance in history maybe that's true. But I don't think it is today. ( it's never happened) but surely if a black teen and a white teen. Both go to the same school. Both live on council estates. Have the same education then surely there is no power balance?

E&W law recognised that anyone can be the victim of racism, I think. Anyone know about other jurisdictions?

@breatheslowandtrust

It depends how you define racism. To me, it is discrimination by those with more structural power, so a black person can discriminate against a white person, but it isn't racism as there isn't a power imbalance. White people have historically always had the power tipped in their favour. Travellers and Eastern Europeans experience a lot of discrimination (often by other white people) but as they are all white I don't think it is correct to call it racism, as they are all racially similar.

What about if there is a power imbalance ie a white employee being harrassed by an asian boss? There was a case which recently went to court (Colin Sorby v Mumtaz Foods). Not only was it a power imbalance due to him being in the more precarious position being a worker vs the accused being his manager, but he was also in the minority in regards regard the colour of his skin.

Absolutely. My Dad came over from Ireland to England in the 1950's. They were treated disgustingly. Nobody would give them a room they ended up staying with an Asian family they were lovely to them.

I had a temporary job through an agency when I was a teenager. Every other employee was from Pakistan. They all spoke on their own language refused to show me what to do. They looked me up and down and talked about me. I lasted until break time and walked out. I complained through the agency and received a written complaint from the company owner.

White people, like all people, can experience racial slurs. As a person of Irish and Jewish roots, I've been called a pikey and a yid and the rest. Racial slurs are offensive. But I never have to give the colour of my skin a second thought. I don't think white people, from the perch I sit upon here in the UK, experience racism.

I agree with a lot of what's written in that article.

Saying black people can't be racist is like saying women can't be sexist. Racism has/had/should have a simpler definition than what's being peddled as the popular one but I also understand why it's so.

The fact remains that there's a form of privilege to being white, non-black and lightskinned but this is only one aspect of life. There are other factors that may or may not affect that privilege in different situations such as environment, social status, background, age, education, etc. Things are really not always black and white (pun both unintended and intended).

Whether people call it racism or prejudice or whatever, it is still treatment based on the colour of someone's skin or their ethnicity.

Not every white person (who may reap the positive effect of white privilege if no other factors are present) has power behind them. Not every black person is powerless.

I know these conversations really are usually based on the western side of the world because I grew up seeing both powerful and powerless (mostly) black people and (some) non-black people. Therefore, I don't see a black person as automatically disadvantaged unless they actually are. Same with a white/non-black person being automatically advantaged.

But yes, due to the systemic racist structure, it's easier to say a black person has experienced racism but a white person hasn't; or a woman has experienced sexism and a man hasn't due to the prevalent patriarchal system in society. History backs one group up and not the other, in that regard. Can blame them though for holding unto that concept.

Power imbalance is the key thing.

The way I explain it to my son is "as a middle-class white man, you may encounter occasional one-off instances of racial prejudice, but you'll never find your job application routinely going into the 'reject' heap simply because of the colour of your skin or the way your name sounds."

Which isn't to say that groups of white people who are relatively powerless for other reasons - e.g. class, sex - can't find themselves sytematically discriminated against because of race as well, because their class/sex has put them in a position of powerlessness - the girls in Rotherham would be a prime example of this.

I was in a school in england where there was only a few white people, racism was rife as I'm sure it is vice versa.

Also I was walking along the road and some men drove past, opened the car door and shouted racist abuse at me

I’m N.Irish and living in England. I’ve had a few negative experiences but I think, in answer to your question, I had a neighbour (psycho woman) scream at me that I was an ‘Irish bitch’ for chasing her 9 cats out of my garden. I reported it to the police as I wanted to keep a record of her bad behaviour and said I didn’t want the police to do anything about it, just record it but the police said that they would have to speak to her as it was a racist incident and they were obliged to act on it.

Is discrimination againstenglish in Scotland/irish in England not xenophobia? I think racism is specific to skin colour, and agree with PP who said when they are the minority and targeted because of skin colour that is racism e.g. racism against whites in Nairobi.

For hundreds of years Irish people have been horrifically discriminated against, look up the penal laws if you want something to sober you up! Problem is we have imported American identity politics, and so the idea of whiteness being the factor of discrimination in a British/ Irish context simply doesn't work. In the 19th century eugenics people tried to prove that Irish people were of a different race to all other Europeans, which is complete tish, but the point is people will find reasons to discriminate if it suits them. Irish Catholics were awfully treated especially after the protestant ascendancy and the reformation, prior to this I believe they were treated just as badly as English or Welsh peasants wee, which was bad. Due to Catholicism bring viewed as a fifth column from the 16th century, this led to various punitive actions being taken, and pretty much culminated it genocide. Thomas Sowell, a famous black American economist and academic said somewhere that at the turn of the 19th century Irish peasants often had a poorer diet than enslaved African Americans, so the idea that being white meant you couldn't be discriminated against is ignorant of history.