Can white people ever experience racism?

[LittleRedCourgettes]

Following a discussion on this topic with some students, I was reading this article and am interested to hear your honest thoughts on this question.....

https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/wherediddwegetttheideaathatonlyywhitepeopleecanbeeracist

The Rotherham scandal is a perfect example of racism but not in the way that has been suggested here.

The victims were not exclusively white, or even the majority of victims. They were just the only ones whose stories mattered and were given coverage. The Asian girls experiencing the same abuse were completely written off and their victim hood ignored. Many chose not to testify or come forward publicly because of shaming within their own community but were knowingly not acknowledged in the press that this was an opportunity to paint a narrative.

This grooming gangs targeted vulnerable girls of all ethnicities but the only ones acknowledged were the white girls. Even in stats for abuse, white victims are more likely to be listened to and have their cases convicted as well as their prepatrators receive harsher sentences than victims of colour.

Victims of colour especially girls are seen as more adult, less in need of protection and having played a role in encouraging their abuse, and more often than not their stories are not recorded. If these men had continued exclusively targeting Asian girls instead they would not have been caught because noone cares.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29794729

@PoplarTrees

Racism = discrimination + power

This is what comes up every time and this is not the definition of racism! Why are people constantly trying to convolute what is clearly an important issue by needlessly trying to change the definitions of words and terms that already exist?

Racism in a 'woke' world is whatever anyone on the left says it is, and if you disagree, you are inherently racist.

I think they can.

Years ago a worked in a team I am English, 2 Scottish and 1 welsh.

One Scot was male and catholic and other female and Protestant.
Welsh girl Protestant and also me (female and English)

The Scots male bullied me horrifically. Actually said out loud and totally believed it was an ok attitude that despite the Scots woman being opposite of people he'd stand with because the others were all Celts they shouldn't include me on anything or have any respect for me.

The most worrying thing for me in hindsight is he genuinely in his heart of hearts believed because I was English I deserved it.

Thankfully the other 2 girls I worked with pulled him up frequently and told him he was wrong.

[quote Notwhatyourhink]The Rotherham scandal is a perfect example of racism but not in the way that has been suggested here.

The victims were not exclusively white, or even the majority of victims. They were just the only ones whose stories mattered and were given coverage. The Asian girls experiencing the same abuse were completely written off and their victim hood ignored. Many chose not to testify or come forward publicly because of shaming within their own community but were knowingly not acknowledged in the press that this was an opportunity to paint a narrative.

This grooming gangs targeted vulnerable girls of all ethnicities but the only ones acknowledged were the white girls. Even in stats for abuse, white victims are more likely to be listened to and have their cases convicted as well as their prepatrators receive harsher sentences than victims of colour.

Victims of colour especially girls are seen as more adult, less in need of protection and having played a role in encouraging their abuse, and more often than not their stories are not recorded. If these men had continued exclusively targeting Asian girls instead they would not have been caught because noone cares.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29794729[/quote]
Wow! That really is a FU view you have. I think it is commonly acknowledged that race played a big part in both the lack of action by social services, lack of action by the police, the lack or reporting by the MSM, and the lack of deportations of those who are not UK citizens after conviction.

But I guess if you go looking for racism you can find it in everything you look for it in.

I think there were lots of racial elements to the Rotherham case- as you detail, the non white victims not reporting their abuse for various reasons, the racial abuse that the white girls reported receiving, which yes, shows stereotyping against white women, police concerns about getting it wrong and causing a regression in community relations hence not acting quickly enough. Certainly not as simple as it only being white girls targeted.

@Mandalakia

I'm not arguing against the legal definition of racism. That's what the law states, but it's still applied with history and the power imbalance in mind. How many bame people are convicted of racial hate crimes against whites? I'm guessing not many.

Actually black perpetrators of hate crimes are disportionately higher than white perpetrators of hate crimes if you compare against % in general population:

Hate crime defendants (accused):
“In 2018–19, 57.9% of defendants in hate crime flagged cases were categorised as White (a fall from 64.5% in 2016–17), with 52.6% being identified as belonging to the White British category. 6.4% of defendants were identified as Black, a fall from 7.1% the previous year, and 4.5% were identified as Asian, a slight fall from 4.9% the previous year 14.” p32 at www.cps.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/publications/CPS-Hate-Crime-Annual-Report-2018-2019.PDF

U.K. population as of last census 2011 was 86% White, 7.5% Asian and 3.3% Black.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

I think that wherever one group of people are the minority, they can experience racism. If a person is targeted and abused because of their skin colour or nationality, then that is racism, whoever it is happening to.

I agree with this. It depends upon whom is the majority/minority and whom has the power/money to control. If you live in a community where you are outnumbered and the people in charge are a different race then yes, I think you can be the victim of racism regardless of which race is in charge and which race is in the minority. Historically, and throughout the world it has been white people with power but that doesnt negate the fact that there are some communities where if you are white, you are the minority.

@ElliFAntspoo
The Rotherham scandal is a perfect example of racism but not in the way that has been suggested here. The victims were not exclusively white, or even the majority of victims

Not the case, the victims were almost exclusively white. You seem to be confusing countries. The U.K. is not the US.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/rotherham-child-sexual-abuse-scandal-lessons-asian-women-s-voices-go-unheard-9701622.html

It is factual and acknowledged that the Asian victims were not acknowledged and victims of the same systemic failures but as the lady says in the first article despite the report being very welcome due to the failings of Social Services, this report will not include Asian girls as victims, it is not for them.

The problem is not my view, the problem is this actually happens.

Historically, and throughout the world it has been white people with power

Not all the world. China has always had highest population in world and one of largest empires and was never controlled by any white people EVER

@PlanDeRaccordement

Historically, and throughout the world it has been white people with power

Not all the world. China has always had highest population in world and one of largest empires and was never controlled by any white people EVER

Very good point!

I agree.

I don't understand why it's an issue to some to say that white British people can experience racism in the UK. If a person is abused or negatively targeted in some way because of their skin colour, then that's racism even if their skin colour is white. It's not systemic racism but it's still racism.

@itsgettingweird

I think they can.

Years ago a worked in a team I am English, 2 Scottish and 1 welsh.

One Scot was male and catholic and other female and Protestant.
Welsh girl Protestant and also me (female and English)

The Scots male bullied me horrifically. Actually said out loud and totally believed it was an ok attitude that despite the Scots woman being opposite of people he'd stand with because the others were all Celts they shouldn't include me on anything or have any respect for me.

The most worrying thing for me in hindsight is he genuinely in his heart of hearts believed because I was English I deserved it.

Thankfully the other 2 girls I worked with pulled him up frequently and told him he was wrong.

That may be bullion, but its not racist. How dumb do people have to be not to understand the difference between 'race', 'sex' and 'nationality'? Get a fucking dictionary people. So long as the idiots believe that everything is racist, actual racism will continue.

It is people like this who paint everything they see as 'racism' that are the true hidden racists in our society. They do this in order to dilute the meaning of 'racism' in the world around them and by doing so minimise actual racism and diminish racism by equating it to petty instances any well balanced individual would recognise as bullying at most.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@ElliFAntspoo
The Rotherham scandal is a perfect example of racism but not in the way that has been suggested here. The victims were not exclusively white, or even the majority of victims

Not the case, the victims were almost exclusively white. You seem to be confusing countries. The U.K. is not the US.[/quote]
Not my quote. Someone elses. Try reading my post and you will see what I wrote.

@BaggoMcoys

I don't understand why it's an issue to some to say that white British people can experience racism in the UK. If a person is abused or negatively targeted in some way because of their skin colour, then that's racism even if their skin colour is white. It's not systemic racism but it's still racism.

Because it doesn't adhere to the left "woke" definition of racism which has further goals that they don't really want you to know about just yet. These goals involve making white people carry the weight of historic racism, asserting that all white people are inherently racist no matter what their attitudes and behaviour, so cannot experience racism themselves and if they try to defend themselves then that just means they're racist too. This is all part of a larger plan to sow division and anger and break down western cultural society in order to replace it with communism, which will definitely work this time

Because it doesn't adhere to the left "woke" definition of racism which has further goals that they don't really want you to know about just yet. These goals involve making white people carry the weight of historic racism, asserting that all white people are inherently racist no matter what their attitudes and behaviour, so cannot experience racism themselves and if they try to defend themselves then that just means they're racist too. This is all part of a larger plan to sow division and anger and break down western cultural society in order to replace it with communism, which will definitely work this time

Yep.

asserting that all white people are inherently racist no matter what their attitudes and behaviour
I have to say, when people come on this thread and try to say that sexism, nationalism, or bullying is 'racism' then maybe they have a point when what I can only assume are reasonably educated people deliberately diminish actual racism to the point where they blur the distinction between race, gender, national identity, etc. and then conflate them all.

Maybe, having read the posts here, 9 out of 10 are ignorant of racism and their only way of understanding it is to conflate it with bullying at work, sexism or nationalism. Those are people who really need to get out into the real world and mature a little.

"How dumb do people have to be not to understand the difference between 'race', 'sex' and 'nationality'?"

The law doesn't differentiate, so it's not dumb is it?

@jackieweaverhasauthorityhere

I think there were lots of racial elements to the Rotherham case- as you detail, the non white victims not reporting their abuse for various reasons, the racial abuse that the white girls reported receiving, which yes, shows stereotyping against white women, police concerns about getting it wrong and causing a regression in community relations hence not acting quickly enough. Certainly not as simple as it only being white girls targeted.

Very interesting. There were also people who wouldn't take on the matter for fear of being considered racist. The Guardian refused to cover the story for a while, for example.

Well, as several of us have said before, in this country the word racism is defined in law. That's what the word means. If you don't agree with this then we need to invent a new word for what you think it means/want it to mean/think it should mean.

Communicating is very difficult when people change the meaning of words.

@Notwhatyourhink - there have been numerous investigations and enquiries into Rotherham abs similar cases. It’s is absolutely untrue that white girls were not the majority of victims. These enquiries found that white women were targeted because of their race and sex and it wasn’t investigated in part because of the race of the perpetrators. There were other elements to the enquiry and incidents but the fact that young women were targeted because of their race and sex is an important one and should not be denied or minimised.

@HettieMillia

Because it doesn't adhere to the left "woke" definition of racism which has further goals that they don't really want you to know about just yet. These goals involve making white people carry the weight of historic racism, asserting that all white people are inherently racist no matter what their attitudes and behaviour, so cannot experience racism themselves and if they try to defend themselves then that just means they're racist too. This is all part of a larger plan to sow division and anger and break down western cultural society in order to replace it with communism, which will definitely work this time

Yep.

Scary but sadly true.

@Gwenhwyfar - there is a definition of all those terms in law.

@Notwhatyourhink - it is absolutely not factual that white girls were not the majority of victims in Rotherham and similar. There were robust enquiries that found they were targeted on the basis of their sex and race. The articles you link to are just vague allegations that Asian women were also victims.

I have no doubt that Asian women are also victims of sexual violence but the grooming scandals were a particular instance of sexual and racial violence which has been proven by numerous investigations. We should not minimise what happened to these women because they are white so it doesn’t suit our narrative.