Can white people ever experience racism?

[LittleRedCourgettes]

Following a discussion on this topic with some students, I was reading this article and am interested to hear your honest thoughts on this question.....

https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/wherediddwegetttheideaathatonlyywhitepeopleecanbeeracist

Also there is a definition of race and racism in law. English is a race (a pp tried to claim it wasn’t). I have done pro bono work in discrimination and people have lost their jobs, been refused work and been attacked at work for being white or English or Jewish or polish, etc. Discrimination does not happen exclusively to black people. Not to say that it doesn’t happen to black people or even mostly to black people but it certainly happens to others including white people.

No, spending a short time in an area where whites were not the majority race and experiencing some name calling and intimidation is not racism. It's really not.

Having your ancestors snatched from their homeland and brought over in chains and enslaved is racism. Men, women, and children beaten and tortured. Lynched and hung. Racial profiling, greater chance of being arrested, shot by police, given harsher sentences, greater chance of poverty, etc. You get the idea.

It might be the 'woke' definition but I think it's also the right one.

I hope somebody more articulate can explain what I'm trying to get across.

www.aclrc.com/myth-of-reverse-racism

This is what I'm clumsily trying to get across.

I would also add that there is an issue of intersectionality for white women who can face discrimination for being white and women. For example the grooming scandals in Rotherham et al were partly due to stereotypes of white women being “easy” and deserving of less respect. It can also be seen at a lower level - eg thinking it’s fair game to harass white women in the Middle East.

Again there are issues of intersectionality with other groups which are no less important but that doesn’t diminish the experience of white women nor should it.

Mandalakia what you are describing is deeply entrenched historical racism which of course started with European colonialism and slavery - Africans enslaved by white Europeans who deemed themselves racially superior (white supremacists). Such endemic racism remains a massive issue in many societies, including the UK, and should never be tolerated.

This fact does not change the fundamental, legal definition of racism.

Name calling and intimidation directed at someone because of their race or ethnicity is racism. We cannot pick and choose whether it is it isn’t depending on the skin colour of the victim.

*cannot pick and choose whether it is OR isn’t

@Mandalakia being murdered because of your race (as Kriss Donald was because he was white) is racism. He was also beaten and tortured and set on fire if you’re interested.

Being called names or intimidated on the basis of your race is absolutely racism. Being raped or groomed to be raped by others because of your race and sex is absolutely racism. Not getting a job because of your race is racism (whether it is because you are Chinese, Jewish, white or black or anything else.

Being enslaved because of your race is racism. That has happened to many races of people over the years including whites, black Africans, Jews, Roma, etc.

And so on. Less favourable treatment on grounds of race is racism. Doesn’t matter who it is happening to or who is doing it.

Also we should not minimize racism because it happened to someone who was visiting a country for a short time. I would be appalled if that happened to someone from another country visiting the UK and it’s just as appalling if it happens to someone from the uk visiting another country.

I'm not arguing against the legal definition of racism. That's what the law states, but it's still applied with history and the power imbalance in mind. How many bame people are convicted of racial hate crimes against whites? I'm guessing not many.

No, white British people can't experience systematic racism

I’m on the train of absolutely not, and when you look historically at the scale of racism created and perpetuated by white people it’s just not comparable.

But there are small snippets of reverse racism. It’s very rare but I have two I was worried about, first time “friends” in other room were saying all white women are whores, like really believed it and going on and on about it in really gross way talking about private parts and breasts etc (we were in Lancashire town so not nice given news at time, thought I couldn’t hear). Second time similar but in London and two guys in group sort of forgot I was there and said similar, no one corrected them I was so embarassed. And truly especially in NW we have horrific abuse which yes would say is racist against white girls.

But... when you’re having a conversation about racism in a day, 23 hours and 59 minutes and 30 seconds would be rightly taken up with racism made by white people. Racism is massively primarily a white problem made by white people. They’d rather go “oh ppl are racist to us” than fix their own bigotry.

I say this as a white woman! It’s true

Soz.... it’s true.... they’d rather deflect than solve their own problem. Like everyone uses northern white girls as an example, but no one helped at our schools and what are you doing now? They cry racism but not helping the girls, they don’t care about the girls as much as using the girls to your own arguments

I have experienced many instances of negative comments, eye-rolls, sneering looks etc. I am white. The perpetrators have been very wealthy immigrants who came to where I live. They are mostly Asian. Many have extremely expensive cars, clothes, jewels etc.n it is culturally important that the wealth be displayed.

Mostly it doesn't really bother me. I don't envy expensive cars and clothes.

Sorry, pressed send too soon.

I wanted to say it feels like racism to me. Quite blatantly sovand there is a huge power imbalance based on money,which is also buying ivy league educations.

We regularly see and hear young men driving Lamborghini and othe mega expensive cars.

But I still love where I live and I hope the following generations can mingle more.

I lived in Asia and have been spat at and called an "Angmo" not sure if that's how it's spelt but it means white person, apparently.

Numerous times, not on one occasion.

Why would you be worried that this book, a Black woman speaking truth to power about the lived experience of racism in the uk, along with many well articulated facts and statistics, would "invalidate your opinion" I wonder?
Probs cos you're racist hun

Oh bore off.

Just to add another perception, as a Scottish person living in England I have experienced racism from English people. Sneered at, told to go home, screamed at for voting for independence (I didn’t), Discriminated and singled out at university due to my accent. Not to mention all the times people won’t accept my money in shops and cafes. There is a bakery in Drotwich Spa which has a notice on the door which says they will not serve anyone with Scottish notes, this was in 2018. As someone whose mother came from England, and Father from Scotland I would rather we just treated everyone with respect regardless of colour, age, sex, or anything else!

Yes to this. Even to this day, I’m astounded at how many people in England think it is acceptable to imitate my accent in general conversation. Usually very badly. Can you imagine someone doing this if I was from say India or Pakistan?

I've experienced hate crimes due to having a German background. Ive had nazi salutes, people shout here comes Hitler, been blamed for the the crimes of the Nazi party, singled out in school during an assembly with a holocaust surviver as the nazi (he was lovely and kind BTW and was horrified by the behaviour), blocked from leaving an Anne Frank exhibition because I " might learn something about real hate" and been thrown down stairs among other things at school by staff and students. I even have family members who either deny their heritage out of hate for non English people or treat me differently as km not entirely English
I dont know if it counts as racism but I was systematically targeted for abuse due to my national and cultural background because the fully English people around me thought they were better than me.

“Racism is massively primarily a white problem made by white people. They’d rather go “oh ppl are racist to us” than fix their own bigotry.”

This is an utterly vile statement and you should be ashamed of yourself.

The racism faced by BAME people in the UK is completely incomparable to the minimal racist abuse faced by white people. Nobody is trying to suggest the two are even remotely the same.

White people will NEVER experience the same level of systemic institutionalised racism as BAME individuals. Nobody here is trying to justify or excuse this kind of racism.

However the definition of “racism” has clearly become extremely skewed in your case. White people here have had experiences where they have been discriminated against for the colour of their skin. If that isn’t racism I don’t know what is.

You do NOT get to decide which groups are deemed worthy of protection by equality laws. You cannot discriminate against an ethnic group by stating they cannot be victims of targeted abuse because of their race. That is disgusting and undermines the point of having equality legislation in the first place.

@Falafelwrap using “Becky” as an insult is an anti-Semitic trope.

Definitely.

I have a European accent despite my family for several generations living in Australia.

While working in a hospital a few years ago an elderly but world renowned cardiologist once told me 'you can't even speak English fuck off back to where you came from'. The funny part being that I only speak English, I'm from Australia and he was actually the foreign one.

I am 'white'

Yes it’s possible, it’s just less likely in the uk

The sexual abuse of white girls in Rotherham being a good example

Racism is massively primarily a white problem made by white people. They’d rather go “oh ppl are racist to us” than fix their own bigotry

This is untrue. Racism is a global issue that has existed as long as there has been internecine conflict and invasions, i.e. thousands of years.

On badly oppressed group are the Hazaras in Afghanistan. They have been suffering persecution, enslavement, mass killings, discrimination and lack of access to services since the 16th Century until the present day, including targeting by the Taliban and ISIS. Thousands of deaths. Part of the othering is that they look and speak differently to other Afghan groups such as the Pashtuns and Tajiks as they are thought to have descended from the Mongol Empire.

Racism in and of itself is a problem everywhere. The fact that one group may have it worse thsn another does not minimise any individual's experience and nobody has the right to do that. What that is saying is 'I have no problem with racism in principle as long as it is not happening to me or people from my race'.

It feels like there is appetite for a term that exclusively refers to oppression or abuse by whites of other races, particularly black people. Fine, there are some excellent writers and commentators on the subject who I'm sure can think of one, but that term is not just 'racism'. That should be the core term with a simple, equal definition and other terms can drill down into more specific and intersectional forms including structural racism etc.

@Goldieloxx

No, white British people can't experience systematic racism

They can outside Britain. Most certainly in China.

@Mandalakia

No, spending a short time in an area where whites were not the majority race and experiencing some name calling and intimidation is not racism. It's really not.

Having your ancestors snatched from their homeland and brought over in chains and enslaved is racism. Men, women, and children beaten and tortured. Lynched and hung. Racial profiling, greater chance of being arrested, shot by police, given harsher sentences, greater chance of poverty, etc. You get the idea.

It might be the 'woke' definition but I think it's also the right one.

I hope somebody more articulate can explain what I'm trying to get across.

Ridiculous. Racism is a spectrum of discrimination from individual level up to systematic. It doesn’t require “ancestors snatched from homeland...slavery...etc etc” and even if it did many ancestors of British were actually snatched from their homeland and made slaves.