Friend asked DPs salary. Now she's being weird with me. Feeling really hurt

[SauvignonExtraChilled]

Hi,

So my friend and I have known each other for roughly 10 years. We hit it off straight away and even though we don't actually see each other that often, we, I would have said anyway, are very close.

Anyway, over the past 5 or so years, our lives have gone in different directions. She broke up from her long term partner (father of her dc) and since then hasn't been lucky in love, to put it mildly. She also lost her job a year ago and has been on benefits whilst trying to start her own business. I moved away (not that far) and married DP and are financially very comfortable. I have never spoken about money, but it will be obvious I suppose, given we have a bigger house in a more expensive area etc.

Earlier in the year (before covid....those were the days) we were out and had had a few cocktails and she just came out and asked what DP earned. I was a bit taken aback and remember actually blushing, which I don't really do! It wasn't just the fact that she asked me, it was the way that she asked me. I nervously laughed "you can't ask that" to which she replied, "what's the big secret? I want to know how you can afford to live in x". I felt almost compelled and so I told her, which obviously now I regret, but I didn't want to appear secretive or rude, which was almost what she was implying.

Straight away, she looks cold. Almost pissed off actually and said something along the lines of "it's alright for some". I remember feeling really awkward and the night was cut short.

I put it down to too much booze and wasn't going to bring it up and just wanted to pretend it hadn't happened.

Since then though, every time we talk she manages to steer the conversation to the subject of money. It's actually bloody tiring. I feel like I have to watch everything I say now. Don't get me wrong, I was always sensitive and mindful of her situation, so would absolutely never brag, but now I feel like we can't even chat about every day mundane things without her making me feel guilty or spoilt.

I was nearly in tears the last time we spoke, because she asked "how are things in your perfect life then?".

She knows how far from perfect it is. I've had it tough for a very long time. Poor MH, bad past relationship, very difficult DC. I would be genuinely over the moon if things were better for her! And I would have been, regardless of my own financial situation.

The strangest thing is, she's always put very little value on money.

I don't want our friendship to fizzle out - I genuinely love her to bits, but if this continues, I can't see how we can continue to be friends.

WWYD? Am I right to be upset? Is this fixable?

She shouldn't have asked, but the below from PP is very true. I had to tell someone today that I couldn't afford an item they thought to be inexpensive and necessary,

Things that are mundane to you, may not be for her anymore - they may be things she really needs to save for or has to forego. That's the thing with being poor.

I dont think it's a clear cut as people see it- having no money and being properly poor makes you blinkered, everything becomes about money. She is being awful but she possibly hates that shes doing it and if you had a discussion it might pull her out of it. We've been both sides of this, dirt, no money for heating, food etc poor and come out the other side, dh on a good salary and now we get the 'how would you know' regularly from ils, who declare us rich. Hope it works out and you stay friends op

@CalmdownJanet summed it up ..

All the people saying its weird that OP told her...what do you do when your friend asks you a straight question?? Just say 'no I'm not saying?' That's really weird.

What's weird is a "friend" asking such an brass-neck intrusive question and expecting an answer. Absolutely I wouldn't disclose anyone else's earnings, not least of all my DH's. None of anyone's business. The answer would be "I'm surprised you're asking, and I'm not comfortable answering that".

Does the Friend in the OP have US influence - it's something they are very open about discussing, even with a stranger they hardly know. They also ask how much your house is worth, what car you have and what bonus you got. Vulgar. That's why I'd never live in US!

@Xenia

In my view you breached your husband's privacy rights and broke the law by disclosing his salary unless he had given you consent and his employer allows it - many employment contracts do not allow the figure to be disclosed. People need to think very carefully before disclosing this - the husband might lose his job for the figure getting out and the individual disclosing the information might be in trouble for breach of data protection law and breach of confidentiality.

How do you get a mortgage or a loan if your contract doesn’t allow you to disclose your salary? Very wrong and outdated advice as a lot of PPs have pointed out

SauvignonExtraChilled I'm sorry your 'friend' is making you feel awkward. If you hadn’t told her your DH's salary she would have made you feel awkward other ways

If you want to continue the friendship you will need to call her out on her behaviour and hopefully then clear the air

HR person here.
Just a quick pointer on the comments that you somehow broke GDPR law, or your husband broke his contract by telling you. Not true.

It's actually illegal now to ban an employee disclosing their salary if they wish, to whoever they wish. Confidentiality clauses around salaries were found to be contributing to unequal pay cases.

GDPR is not relevant in this situation.

I agree it was a breach of your husband's trust. His salary is his business to share if he wants, not yours. My DP has no control over his mouth, so now I simply don't put temptation in his way by telling him anything private. It's not nice to have to be this way.

Mundane things that I haven't been able to chat about with people -

Holidays, particularly overseas travel and honeymoon destinations.
Cars.
Whether to choose race course, the medieval or Gothic Revival church or the castle for a wedding venue.
Trips to the theatre.
Recent movies.
House prices.
Home improvements.
Decorating.
Problems with builders.
Second home woes.
How to get the best out of a Kitchenaid.
What wine to choose.
Sailing.
Your best ever large gig.
University choices.
Dissertation woes.
Restaurants.
Clothes.
Shoes.
The relative merits of Ashtanga and Bikram yoga.
Whether to purchase a machine for Reformer Pilates or continue with individual sessions.
At times, food in any respect.
What breeder is best for what breed of dog.
Anything on TV.
Recent concerts or festival memories.

I could still have a conversation about livestock, dogs, cat, horses, plants, cooking in general (as long as you didn't tell me that x food/spice was amazing and you couldn't believe I hadn't tried it yet). But the utter chasm between what was my experience and that of people who are perfectly nice but effectively on a different planet - well, I'd wonder exactly what I'd done wrong to deserve having such a diametrically opposed experience. And if it came down to 'I found somebody who made a very good wage and they wanted to marry me', or 'My parents sold one of their rental properties' FOR EXAMPLE, I would think 'Fuck me, you've got somebody who loves you, you don't have true money worries and you still don't get how amazing your life sounds to me with my tenner and whatever I can find down the back of the knackered sofa for food for the rest of the month?'

You can be miserable rich or poor. But having done the latter, I'd far rather be miserable in comfort.

Just to be the dissenting voice, it's this faux secrecy around salaries that perpetuates women being paid less.

Absolutely

💯!!

I don't get all the angst and hang ups over money.
It's never occurred to me to ask anyone their salary but I can't see anything wrong with a ball park figure if some close asked.

The friend is being unfair.

@daisychain01 Wow such strong feelings about this! I suppose I don't consider it such personal information. I must be very vulgar

Agree it is likely a cultural thing though. I've lived in a number of countries and its not unusual to discuss money/finances openly. Very different here in the UK. So interesting!

TBH professional context, I've found its quite good to know ball park numbers of what other people earn, because as a woman I've found that knowing the vague number of what my male counterparts earn has helped me argue for more equal salaries. Being hush hush about money doesn't really help with equality. Each to their own though!

Oh come on OP, tell us how much he earns then!!

All the people saying its weird that OP told her...what do you do when your friend asks you a straight question?? Just say 'no I'm not saying?' That's really weird

It really isn’t weird to decline to answer a question that you don’t want to answer. I’d never tell anyone what my husband or my kids earn. It’s not my information to tell for starters.

I don't see how you can continue to be friends just at the moment.

Perhaps you could find each other in the future when she's developed a bit of empathy and hasn't got such a chip on her shoulder.

I'd just put her straight on not everyone having a perfect life, and ignore her money comments. In time she might find peace.

She was blunt and direct with you.

You now have license to be blunt and direct with her. The next time she makes a money-related dig, you can tell her how it makes you feel and that she needs to stop.

It could well be that she just needs to process this on her own and not be friends with more affluent people for the time being if it's too difficult for her.

I find it quite odd that some folks are so hung up on money too, someone is even suggesting the op broke the law, for goodness sake.

I know how much my close friends and their children earn, they us, we know our financial situations and are very open about money. Clearly not with close friends, but we are with close friends, I don’t get the big secrecy thing.

@justasking111

You can laugh, that is exactly what a friend of mine did when her partner left her in dire financial straits. She frightened him half to death grin

I hope she’s no longer a friend?

All the people saying its weird that OP told her...what do you do when your friend asks you a straight question?? Just say 'no I'm not saying?' That's really weird

I've been asked, response was, mind your own fucking business.

Disclosing salary to a mortgage lender under conditions of confidentiality is not the same as chatting about it to a friend. Also companies were indeed required to allow salary disclosure for equality claims litigation but the plan in the Equality Act 2010 to prohibit clauses which say you must not disclose your salary did not go ahead.

I have not read above but if someone says I am wrong about the law by all means show me how. I just checked and this seems consistent with what I said - that your contract may well make it a breach to disclose the salary [[https://www.peninsulagrouplimited.com/guides/salary-confidentiality/]] where the employment contract says so.

A lot of people got this wrong in 2010 and said all pay secrecy clauses were invalid - that is not the case. The clause is only unenforceable if used to stop an equal pay claim. Here it is wives gossiping unlawfully and nothing to do with equal pay claims therefore if there is such a clause it is valid.

" 77Discussions about pay

(1)A term of a person's work that purports to prevent or restrict the person (P) from disclosing or seeking to disclose information about the terms of P's work is unenforceable against P in so far as P makes or seeks to make a relevant pay disclosure.

(2)A term of a person's work that purports to prevent or restrict the person (P) from seeking disclosure of information from a colleague about the terms of the colleague's work is unenforceable against P in so far as P seeks a relevant pay disclosure from the colleague; and “colleague” includes a former colleague in relation to the work in question.

(3)A disclosure is a relevant pay disclosure if made for the purpose of enabling the person who makes it, or the person to whom it is made, to find out whether or to what extent there is, in relation to the work in question, a connection between pay and having (or not having) a particular protected characteristic.

(4)The following are to be treated as protected acts for the purposes of the relevant victimisation provision—

(a)seeking a disclosure that would be a relevant pay disclosure;

(b)making or seeking to make a relevant pay disclosure;

(c)receiving information disclosed in a relevant pay disclosure.

(5)The relevant victimisation provision is, in relation to a description of work specified in the first column of the table, section 27 so far as it applies for the purposes of a provision mentioned in the second column."

Xenia, Xenia, Xenia*

"Wives gossiping unlawfully..." it's when you're rattled that your contempt for other women really comes out, isn't it?

No need to get into complex legal arguments. OP has given no indication that her DP has such a clause in his contract. Nor that she disclosed the exact amount to her friend. Plus it isn't her that her DP's employer has the (hypothetical) non disclosure contract with. Contracts with pay disclosure clauses refer to 'colleagues' (as you've quoted above), not chatting with a friend.

@Bluntness100, I 100% have never bragged. I loath bragging. I'm not saying I couldn't have unintentionally said something insensitive, but as pp have said, it's probably quite difficult not to do that when your lives are currently very difficult.

Trying to find a solution. I don't want money to come between us. I know some will say that it's not that that's coming between us, it's her, but I really value her friendship and actually one of the things that I really admired about her was her disinterest in status and material things. So why on earth would she be jealous?

I just can't work it out.

Here it is wives gossiping unlawfully

Oh, @Xenia's contempt for women, the poor, the people who looked at her house while walking past during lockdown etc etc are what makes up her cosy little online personality.

I have not read above but if someone says I am wrong about the law by all means show me how. I just checked and this seems consistent with what I said - that your contract may well make it a breach to disclose the salary [[www.peninsulagrouplimited.com/guides/salary-confidentiality]]/ where the employment contract says so.

If you want to cite law, then link to a government site. Not someones idea of what the law is.

And are we talking criminal law, or civil contract law ? The latter is useless unless and until it's tested in court and there are rulings that can be examined.

I have a couple of friends from mainland Europe and both talk openly about money/salaries etc .... I find it quite refreshing.

Have you talked openly with her about her money struggles? I have noticed when people have money issues nobody really wants to know. You are still expected to contribute to X or Y. I think more open conversations around money is a good thing.

I would have the money conversation with her. The fact that you are financially comfortable is not your fault nor should you hide it. Tell her how her behaviour makes you feel but also try and establish how she is feeling.

Xenia - presumably the husband should not disclose his salary to his wife? And how does the wife know what she has been told is right or not?

I have a couple of friends from mainland Europe and both talk openly about money/salaries etc .... I find it quite refreshing.

And I'd wager the pay differential between the sexes is smaller than the UKs.

I know it's boring, and women probably don't really want equal pay anyway. But inventing a culture of "not talking about it" seems to me to be a great way for men to stay on top.