DS resents us for not sending him to private school

[sejanus]

Let me just give a bit of back story...
Both DH and I went to private schools. DH went to a big name boarding school and hated it, left without any real good qualifications as he mucked about. I went to a small day school and was happy and left with good enough grades to get me into the local university. I am an only child. DH has a brother and a sister who have both done very well for themselves and so now send their children to private schools too. DS is therefore the only one of his generation in the family not to go to a private school.

We sent him to the local comprehensive school that looked like a very good option when he was in primary, but over the years has slid. It's now having extra support due to failures in certain fields.

DS worked very hard throughout school and ended up with good a levels that got him into the university he wanted to go too. He was never particularly happy and often was ribbed for being geeky and a bit posh.

Could we have afforded private school? Probably, at a big push without any holidays that he's enjoyed but we both have pretty average incomes. (Less than 100k together)

DS has admitted he feels like he massively missed out on not being sent to a private school. About 50% of his university went to private schools and he feels they are cliquey against people who went to state schools. He said well if his grandparents afforded for his parents to go to private school, why could his parents not do the same?

Oh, ffs, Tatiana, you are referencing countries where education is only available if you pay, aren’t you? What a ridiculous waste of time. Yep, you got me. Happy now?

I bounced straight out of my rural comp into the posh set at university . Only incident was one girl proclaiming loudly “they don’t do sport at state schools” AHEM!!!

The assumption that a family funding 2 children at private school can only be higher earners on 40% tax is ludicrous.

Two sets of school fees at my kids’ (primary) school is £30k pa. It is significantly higher for secondary. This comes from post tax income. How on earth can anyone who isn’t a higher rate taxpayer manage this (unless a family member (presumably another higher rate taxpayer!) is funding it? Higher rate tax kicks in at £37k. The arithmetic supports the statement, surely?

Oh, ffs, Tatiana, you are referencing countries where education is only available if you pay, aren’t you?

No not particularly.

Older family members can help fund the fees from savings Natalia

Higher rate tax kicks in at 46,300 or thereabouts, not 37K, I thought.

Tatiana, there is an article in the Economist right now about this very issue.

As the Economist states, in poor countries, cut-price private schools run on a shoestring are now very popular. Their facilities are extremely basic but the kids do at least sit down and study, have textbooks of some kind and the teachers do basic stuff like show up to work and attempt to do their job. In state schools, teachers literally don't turn up to work a lot of the time, teach up to 80 kids of all ages in a class, kids wander in and out or just don't go half the time (with no consequences) etc. etc. In poor counties, private schools really do do a better job than state ones.

In rich countries (as the Economist again sets out), after parental income and education level are taken into account, state schools are mostly perfectly functional (while of course not perfect) and there is little evidence that private schools add much value. It's a totally different situation.

And private schools in rich countries cannot be run as cheaply as they are in India--we have to pay for pesky things like teachers' pensions and things like that, and parents expect much better facilities.

I suppose if you pared the facilities to the bone (no nice extras or sports gyms or anything, resting in a school campus that looks far more basic than the average state school) you could build a relatively cheap private school system, but why bother? There is not that much of a market for cheap private schools in developed countries. If you are super-rich, you want a swanky school with marvelous facilities and photography studios and sports fields and super duper school trips and so on. If you are middle-class, it generally makes more sense to invest in a property near a good state school (since our state schools actually education children quite well, unless the state schools in places like India) and then supplement with tutoring and so on.

I went to a state school and often got picked on for being 'geeky and a bit posh'.

I ended up homeless for 3 years and a single teenage mum with many issues (not due to that, but the bullying didn't help).

I now have 3 children, have worked hard and got into a top uni on a very competitive degree.

I think partly the issue is (and please don't take offence) that someone who believes that 100k is an average wage doesn't really understand how thr working or underclasses live and that will have ven pressed on to your son. So he now believes you choose not to do enough for him and now, after having a difficult time at school for being 'posh', he is struggling to make friends once again with people he feels he takes to.

I live hand to mouth despite what I'm currently achieving because I wanted to live in an area with the best state school. I would have lived to have sent mine to a private school but that's because if my own insecurities and fears due to my personal experiences.

My children all have 'rich and posh friends' and particularly one of them seems a bit resentful/embarresed we do not a big horse and can't afford holidays abroad. I continually remind them all that money does not affect how people should be treated and always speak about those less fortunate than us, the circumstances that surround it and the unfairness of our class system. Yet I'm also a hypocrite because I chose to live In an area I can't afford - but the statistics speak for themselves.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that maybe you both should jerk a bit more on how the half live.

I would validate his feelings (as they are his feelings) and explain why you made the decision you did. But don't feel guilty, we'r al do what we'r think is right and we all base things on our own experiences.

I have rich and poor friends, al I care about it's they are good people and I will continue to drive this into my children so they don't end up being little arseholes who think they are better then anyone.

You both should take a bit if time out to, as a pp has said, see how the other half live. I took mine out to feed the homeless. They all at one time have raised money for charity.

I'm not saying you've done anything wrong, I just think it's harder for kids to understand the terrible class system we have in this country and judge others on it.

Please excuse my typos! Didn't proof read

house learn not jerk

What university does he go to where people are being clique-y over state vs private? These are adults, by the way. I went to a Russell Group uni 30 years ago and, if anything, the private school kids had more piss taking to deal with. Has that changed?
No body gave much of a shit one way or the other because we were young adults with all the ups and downs that comes with that. As I say, if anything it was the private school ones that had it.
I remember History of Art being a very "private school " course but my pal on it from a very impoverished state school background never reported people being mean to him. Again. Adults.

Well, adults are sometimes cliquey and excluding as well - this ds may have been unlucky.

There are quite a few posts on mn about dcs finding it hard to make friends at university - I agree it may be nothing to do with state and private though, although if a lot of people arrive already knowing each other that can make for a different and sometimes difficult dynamic.

My impression is that things have changed over the past 10-20 years - though mostly in that some universities have expanded which if anything you might expect would reduce the problem in that the friends pool has expanded. Some dstudents just find it easier than others - there are always some who fit in wherever they are, others who find it harder.

But for op I expect her main concern is whether/how she can advise her ds so that he makes the most of university and the future.

“Please excuse my typos! Didn't proof read ”

I was going to say that we only have a little horse too.........

I think he just met the wrong sort of private school alumni.

It is possible to be from an independent school and not be a twat & vice versa re state schools.

(To put it kindly)
I think the OPs son may be over-generalising and catastrophising based on a few bad experiences with individuals.
He might benefit from a bit of pastoral support to get him through this. Starting uni is a really hard time for anyone. I doubt that the fact he didn't go to private school really is the root of his unhappiness, but it is a way for him to shift the blame off himself.
It can be hard to make friends at uni, and that can make you feel bad. That's not unusual. He needs to build his own resilience to find his own path in life, and maybe this mini-crisis is part of that.

Fully agree with Chiara.

In rich countries (as the Economist again sets out), after parental income and education level are taken into account, state schools are mostly perfectly functional (while of course not perfect) and there is little evidence that private schools add much value.

Depends what you regard as evidence - many top U.K. universities take a much higher % of private school students than the proportion they represent (7%).

Which is why immigrants come here and scrimp to get their kids a good education to establish the family. Alternatively they may also help a family member pay international fees to go to a Western uni - to get a foothold in a Western country.

There are all kinds of factors not covered by state system here - anyone showing significant talent in music, sport, dance etc - may need specialist training that requires significant investment. There are no state specialist music schools here, example, like Chethams, Menuhin etc.

The famous Russian dancer Sergei Polunin’s whole family made huge sacrifices to get the best training for his talent. His father took construction work in Portugal because it was the only place he could find work, living apart from his wife and family, to fund his son’s place at the Royal Ballet School here. Ultimately the marriage didn’t survive.

You tell him his sacrifice wasn’t real, doesn’t count.

If you are middle-class, it generally makes more sense to invest in a property near a good state school (since our state schools actually education children quite well, unless the state schools in places like India) and then supplement with tutoring and so on

It makes sense for some middle classes to pay for education by stealth by buying places at state schools via property and tutors, depriving less privileged able students who can’t afford either, while other people choose to pay directly.

But this discussion was not about the merits of the private vs state system in the U.K. There are some excellent state schools here.

But of the principle that paying for education cannot be regarded as a sacrifice for some people.