I’ve accidentally raised a brat and I don’t know how to deal with it

[Babayaggatheboneylegged]

I’m at a loss over how to deal with my six-year-old daughter.

She’s been a ‘tricky’ character all her life. As in, not very amenable and not one for just getting on with things. If she’s unhappy about a situation, she makes it VERY clear. She can be really sweet and caring, but she is very stroppy, sometimes with a self-destructive streak. She’s usually prepared to cut off her nose to spite her face.

This year, we agreed with my husband’s siblings (most of whom also have kids) that we’d chip in and get one present for the dc from the collective aunties and uncles, to reduce the sheer amount of STUFF the kids get. I’m particularly in favour of this as we live in a small house, and I just don’t think my kids really need anything. I hate that Christmas ‘thing’ of getting stuff for the sake of it.

So my kids have got tickets to a show this weekend as their ‘aunties and uncles’ pressie. I mentioned it to DD this morning on the way to school, and she sighed loudly and moaned. Like it was this massive chore to her.

I was thinking, WTF? I said she needed to remember how lucky she is, how that was no way to behave when we’re talking about a gift someone has given her etc.

She turned to me and said, ‘well, I don’t believe in Christmas!’

As is often the case with dd, I didn’t actually know what to say in response to this.

As she was going into school, I asked her again, nicely, to remember how lucky she was and she replied with the ‘I don’t even believe in Christmas,’ thing again. I said it didn’t matter what she believed in, she was very lucky and shouldn’t be spoilt and ungrateful. And then she went into school.

I think she is spoilt. We take her lots of nice places, we have a big extended family who are all really generous to her and she wants for nothing. We’ve never been the kind of parents who give her everything she asks for. We do say ‘no’ to a lot of stuff.

But it’s clearly not enough. I’m just so disappointed.

And I don’t know how to address it.

Part of me is SERIOUSLY tempted to say, well if you don’t believe in Christmas, we won’t do it then. And give her presents away. But I know I’d never actually go through with it.

But is there anything I can do without resorting to this sort of nuclear option? I so don’t want to raise an entitled and ungrateful child. And yet here we are…

Has anyone out there successfully tackled an attitude problem like this? Is she likely to grow out of this kind of thing?

I think it would be good to get her to develop a sense of empathy.
Ask her how she feels when things like this happen. Ask her why she sighed when you told her and what made her feel like that.
Then ask her how would she feel if she gave a gift and the recipient acted like that.
So, engage with her feelings so she has some awareness then ask her to put herself in that situation or how does she think others feel.
It’s also a good time to make her aware of those who aren’t so fortunate and to learn to be charitable.
Give her £1 and ask her to choose something for the food bank.
6 is still young and her behaviour sounds fairly normal.

Is she saying she doesn’t believe in Father Christmas?

That’s not a punishable offence, really.

The rest of it, the attitude and entitlement, absolutely is.

I’d say she misses out on going to the show if she’s going to be an ungrateful little madam, personally. She can stay home quietly with a book and a boring lunch while other children get a treat. But over this specifically she hasn’t behaved appallingly really apart from the not believing stuff, so there must be lots of other examples.

Generally what are the consequences for her when she throws a strop about something?

"That's fine dd, you'll get none of the magic that goes with Christmas then"

No presents, no santa, no fun.

Well she needs to learn that her unpleasant behaviour has consequences. The golden rule in life is that if you are nice to others they will be nice to you. If she isn’t nice then you don’t be nice either. She’s made a fuss over these tickets so let your other child invite a friend and leave her at home.

Argh don't they excel at button pushing at this age?

Don't let it get you down, I'm sure she's not a brat! She's six. Mine at that age often copied things they'd heard and a lot of the dafter stuff was attitudes struck for effect or because it sounded good, or to see what would happen. I found being brisk about what I expected and not buying into silly things and taking them seriously helped.

I'd be starting with 'we're not talking about what you believe in, I expect good manners and no face pulling or being rude, and not discussing it any further.' Then have zero tolerance for any huffing and attituding with your usual low level consequences, like you would for any other negative behaviour, and no negotiating about whether believing in Christmas/any other interesting theory she can come up with works to hold your attention and get a reaction. With that part of it sorted you can look at whether you want to manage things in the future if you want to practice manners and appreciating what she has, or if you feel she needs to get a bit less used to stuff and experiences, but she doesn't need to know you're managing it. She's so little still, so much of it is habit and what seems like a good idea in the moment and gets a rewarding response.

Is she saying she doesn't believe in FC (fine) or is she saying something near-random to create a hill to die on?

Nothing wrong with the nuclear option, IMO. We do the 1-2-3 thing (or really, 1-2-2.5-2.75-3) and every so often we have to get to 3, and follow through with what we said we'd do (not going someplace for example). They don't tend to grow out of it if it's allowed to carry on. At that age, they need to start learning manners - they can think what they like but zip it.

Also, why do you have to be nice to her all the time? She's not being nice and kind, by the sounds of things. Don't be a doormat. You need to be firm, mean it, and follow through. I'm not saying lock her in the coal hole, just that I would not be wasting my time and effort being nicey nicey and sweetness and light to someone who was behaving like your DD is, and I'd be telling her why I was not being nice!

Thanks beechview, that is good advice.

I’m not particularly invested in whether she believes in Christmas or Santa or whatever. For context, we are atheists but do the Santa thing cos it’s fun and I enjoyed it as a kid. But she goes to school with children of lots of different faiths and her best friend is from a Muslim family so deffo doesn’t believe in xmas or father xmas or whatever, so I’m not surprised she is sceptical or doesn’t believe. I just don’t want her to be a dick!

Normally when she strops, we tell her off initially, which usually sends her deeper into the strop.

Then me or DH will give her a big talking to where we patiently explain why it’s not ok to behave like that, why it’s hurtful etc.

Then it’s just a matter of time before the cycle continues...

Yeah, I’m a bit sceptical of this wishy washy nice approach engaging with feelings and having a big chat about why the child thinks it’s ok to voice being disappointed in a perfectly nice present. It’s not really. Six is far old enough to not be a little dictator in the making with strops and stamped feet. It needs extinguishing, not given a platform. Don’t give that kind of behaviour the time of day.

How have you explained Christmas to her?
We're atheists so have explained to our DC that it's a time of year when we get together with the people we love and give presents to show we care and we light candles and decorate the tree to bring some light into the dark winter nights.

What I'm trying to say is, if you don't believe in the message behind Christmas, then it makes sense that she doesn't see the point of it. What does she think it means?

Normally when she strops, we tell her off initially, which usually sends her deeper into the strop.

Then me or DH will give her a big talking to where we patiently explain why it’s not ok to behave like that, why it’s hurtful etc

So no actual consequences for a strop other than a talking to. No wonder she strops a lot. Time to have consequences and follow them through.

Personally I think you are obviously great parents and have the right aspirations for how you want your child to behave.

I would however, in particular with a 6 year old, laugh a lot of what she says off, especially when she is saying things for a reaction which is how I would interpret the Christmas statement.

Diffuse the drama, laugh it off, but continue with your insistence on good manners and being a nice person.

Ah she is only 6. I think you are taking the right tack with her, pulling her up on her attitude/ungratefulness. My eldest was a bit like this, and my youngest is going the same way, the other 3 couldn't be more different! I never took any crap from them but they are who they are, my eldest in particular was a struggle but she has grown up perfectly fine, she is now a decent, caring, hard working individual.

This is a fraught and pressured time of year for children. Excitement, routines are out, all sorts going on at school, quite a lot of (inadvertent or otherwise) adult pressure to 'believe' in #the magic', talk of naughty and nice lists (even if you don't do that, she will have picked it up from somewhere).

I'm a bit shocked at those advocating no presents or even no show, for one comment and groan from a 6yo. Have you never snapped or whinged unreasonably about something because you were a bit tired and grumpy? If you have, why is that OK and forgivable for an adult, but a child has to be all grateful smiles at all times? She might have been hoping for a particular present from aunts/uncles and couldn't hide her disappoinment in the moment that she wouldn't be getting it. As long as she is polite to them about it, it's OK for her to express that disappointment in her own home. A gentle word along the lines of 'oh dear, I think [show] sounds like brilliant fun, and I do hope you'll go along and enjoy it and remember to thank Auntie X and Uncle Y very much for it' would have sufficed.

Your dd sounds like a child who needs to be 'caught being good'. Be careful about labelling her as 'difficult'. And be careful about the messages you give her about her behaviour. Not being amenable or prone to go along with things may stand her in very good stead in her later life, especially as a woman. She needs to be kind, and polite, but she's entitled to her needs, feelings, opinions.

I do agree that, other than tellings off and talkings to, we don’t do consequences enough.

So should we say she’s not going to the show then?

Like I say, I don’t care what she does or doesn’t ‘believe’ in, I just want her to not be a stroppy madam!

The not believing is different to the stroppiness. The stroppiness would have a consequence if it carried on after school. If she's still moody I'd say no show for her.

TBH mine would've probably been a bit disappointed at going to a show as their Christmas present at 6yo. It's not quite the same as the excitement at ripping of the paper and finding something magical. It's quite a grown-up present and maybe she just didn't 'get it'.

Had you explained the whole change of approach to Christmas this year?

AndItStillSaidFourOfTwo As a people pleaser, I find DD very hard to deal with at times, but try to tell myself that it’s BETTER for her not to be amenable or a pushover.

But she doesn’t half make life difficult for herself (and us!) at times.

And while I’m all for her growing up to know her own mind and not take any shit, I do want her to appreciate how very fortunate she is!

I think she doesn't go to the show. I remember being about the same age and getting an advent calendar I didn't want because it was only pictures and no chocolate. So they took it away and made a big fuss over what picture my sister had in her calendar every day that advent. I never forgot it and still remember with shame how I acted.

I would take her to the show and then get her to write a little note of thanks to each aunt/uncle saying thank you and what she had particularly enjoyed. A reminder that she had a good time as a result of others being generous.

I think it is ludicrous to expect children to be happy, grateful and constantly positive at this time of year! Perhaps that moment she didn't fancy going and had a little moan. Do you never do that? Are you constantly happy to be 'on' and performing delight all the time? Do you never moan to your husband you'd rather not attend a certain event, but then go and have a nice time?

Children shouldn't be rude to the aunt or uncle or on the day, but at home they should have a bit of freedom to be themselves, including being less than happy. She wasn't rude, it is you that is going on and on about how wonderful, great it is and how much fun it will be.

Cut the lecturing, laugh when she says she doesn't believe in Christmas, make a joke 'oh what a shame, I'll let FC know no presents then' (as a JOKE) and cut her some slack at this time of year.

You are over-reacting, and all this talk of no presents crap is just MN posturing, I simply refuse to believe there's a parent would actually do that for anything less than some type of criminal activity!

She’s going to get a tonne of presents! There will be plenty of paper to tear etc.

And I don’t think she’d have had her heart set on getting a ‘thing’ from the aunties and uncles. I think she knows that xmas = presents and that she’s unlikely to go short.

I don’t know what the moan was about - other than to maybe get a reaction?

I wouldn't not take her to the show if it wasn't an agreed consequence for being bratty. Not fair just to suddenly say she's not going if she hasn't been warned about it properly.

Is so much going on her life that a trip to the theatre is just another thing? Is she used to going to the theatre all the time?

I get that they are completely knackered at this time of year. But that's no real excuse for brattishness. We do reduce the amount we do as far as possible - otherwise you're just setting them up to fail.

Not an August born girl perchance;?
Sounds a bit familiar;!

Don't know what to recommend but I've got a mate a bit like her, great bloke do anything for you to help but hasn't a clue what Empathy is or means.

Anyway perhaps shes a wannabee Jov's witness they don't do Xmas;-!

Op you don’t have to punish and do harsh consequences. I’ve never punished my kids.

I’m no wishy washy parent and I am strict but I do it in a way that feels right to me.

You should parent in a way that feels natural to you and make adjustments when you see you need to, like you have done.
None of us are perfect but it’s easier when we re not trying to do things that don’t feel true to us.

Have a look at this site which I found really helpful.
www.ahaparenting.com/index.htm