I’ve accidentally raised a brat and I don’t know how to deal with it

[Babayaggatheboneylegged]

I’m at a loss over how to deal with my six-year-old daughter.

She’s been a ‘tricky’ character all her life. As in, not very amenable and not one for just getting on with things. If she’s unhappy about a situation, she makes it VERY clear. She can be really sweet and caring, but she is very stroppy, sometimes with a self-destructive streak. She’s usually prepared to cut off her nose to spite her face.

This year, we agreed with my husband’s siblings (most of whom also have kids) that we’d chip in and get one present for the dc from the collective aunties and uncles, to reduce the sheer amount of STUFF the kids get. I’m particularly in favour of this as we live in a small house, and I just don’t think my kids really need anything. I hate that Christmas ‘thing’ of getting stuff for the sake of it.

So my kids have got tickets to a show this weekend as their ‘aunties and uncles’ pressie. I mentioned it to DD this morning on the way to school, and she sighed loudly and moaned. Like it was this massive chore to her.

I was thinking, WTF? I said she needed to remember how lucky she is, how that was no way to behave when we’re talking about a gift someone has given her etc.

She turned to me and said, ‘well, I don’t believe in Christmas!’

As is often the case with dd, I didn’t actually know what to say in response to this.

As she was going into school, I asked her again, nicely, to remember how lucky she was and she replied with the ‘I don’t even believe in Christmas,’ thing again. I said it didn’t matter what she believed in, she was very lucky and shouldn’t be spoilt and ungrateful. And then she went into school.

I think she is spoilt. We take her lots of nice places, we have a big extended family who are all really generous to her and she wants for nothing. We’ve never been the kind of parents who give her everything she asks for. We do say ‘no’ to a lot of stuff.

But it’s clearly not enough. I’m just so disappointed.

And I don’t know how to address it.

Part of me is SERIOUSLY tempted to say, well if you don’t believe in Christmas, we won’t do it then. And give her presents away. But I know I’d never actually go through with it.

But is there anything I can do without resorting to this sort of nuclear option? I so don’t want to raise an entitled and ungrateful child. And yet here we are…

Has anyone out there successfully tackled an attitude problem like this? Is she likely to grow out of this kind of thing?

hmm, but what did she say exactly? I mean, she might have just not felt like going, and you say you do lots with her, maybe she is just tired and it did feel like a chore, I know I get like that, too, and I am not six and make my own engagements! also, she did not say that to her aunts and uncles, but to you. What I am saying is, my reaction would depend on exactly what she said.

Babayaggatheboneylegged shes Not complaining about less presents is she? She's weary of constantly being expected to fake enthusiasm, delight and gratitude and being told off and disliked for telling the truth.

It would be very rude to express dissatisfaction and ingratitude to the giver of a present, but why do you want her to fake and lie to you . Her little life sounds emotionally exhazsing despite all her material advantages. A lot of children would prefer less presents and shows and outings in return for removal of the constant expectation of gratitude and requirement to perform enjoyment and light hearted sunny happiness.

OP the show is a lovely present for DD but it’s too abstract for her to understand until she’s there.
I bet on the day you’ll all have an amazing time but I find young children are impulsive and the concept of delayed gratification is hard to learn.

Hmm. I think maybe a lot of them are quite materialistic and self-centred at that age. Lots of kids get far too much stuff, will be bragging at school about the iphones etc they will get and she will compare that and is not able to see the bigger picture, cos she's 6. DD got much better when she left her teenage years, and has done a charity fundraiser for her 21st if that gives you hope! SD on the other hand is moaning like crazy about going to an expensive panto at the weekend. She could give her ticket up to someone who would enjoy it without problem but would rather go and whine like a toddler. Yes, it makes me want to slap her, but I hope she will mature too in about 10 years, tho she is 19 on, in case you thought she was also 6 I am saying this as I feel your pain! I think she will get it in the end, but just not yet.

I think I would just have said, 'that's fine, if you don't want to go then we will pass the tickets on.'

She doesn't have to go to shows that she isn't interested in.

She didn't express her dislike to the person who gave the present so its not rude from that perspective.

Forced gratefulness for things you don't want or need (and in my case have asked people not to give me) is the thing I'm least looking forward to this xmas....

I'd have been disappointed not to have presents to open at the age of six. Even if it was a show she particularly wanted to go to (was it?) kids that age like having a physical present to open. Presents aren't meant to be something you "need", books or board games are a good present without being tat.

She sounds like a pretty normal six year olds, they get grumpy sometimes, as do adults. Maybe cut her a bit of slack. It's not healthy to expect children to be "sunshine and light" all the time. You wouldn't expect an adult not to have a moan sometimes, so why expect it of a young child?

Rather than just tell her how lucky she is, maybe ask her to help choose something for a childrens' Christmas present appeal.

What ‘consequences’ do people advocate?

We took away toys for a bit, but she never seemed that bothered by that consequence.

We do sometimes do the ‘you can’t have that treat/comic/sweet/tv show because of the way you’ve behaved’ but I rarely cancel outings because I don’t like punishing us all. Am still in two minds about the show...

She also often volunteers to go through her toys and give some of them away to charity. It’s something she seems to enjoy, rather than a punishment!

And she normally loves going to shows! But I’m worried it’s become less of a treat (because she’s spoilt!)

My DS2 (6) is also a bit like this. We always have similar negativity from him when it comes to going practically anywhere - especially frustrating when it is meant to be a treat. And I find it utterly incomprehensible most of the time!

Anyway, we have taken to a non- negotiable approach & treat it as bad behaviour in the same way as being wilfully rude / disobedient / disrespectful etc. So there are consequences - just make sure the threatened consequence is something you are prepared to carry through!

This weekend I had 'I don't want to go to so and so's birthday party today'. It took a very long chat about "how would you feel if your friends didn't come to your party at the last minute" and "just because someone has been 'mean' to you on one occasion does not mean you can 'pay them back' - be the bigger person, be kind etc etc". Similar with Xmas card writing - he wanted to leave out a friend he says is mean to him, but eventually accepted it was unkind to leave out one person... Took an age though.

He's someone who is very happy doing his own thing - in fact mostly happy doing his own thing - and doesn't always appreciate the impact of his views on others. Which comes across as utterly selfish!! It's hard work but we just keep plodding on. My biggest fear is him expressing himself in this way at a party or to someone's parents! Cue long lectures on what it is and isn't appropriate to say and to whom and behaving nicely regardless!

Anyway, that's not much help but you are not alone! It's particularly hard to handle for me as he's the 3rd DC and I would have expected to have parenting a 6 year old nailed by now - but he's a completely different child in practically every way from the other two. Still, he keeps me on my toes I guess!

We take her lots of nice places, we have a big extended family who are all really generous to her and she wants for nothing. We’ve never been the kind of parents who give her everything she asks for. We do say ‘no’ to a lot of stuff.

But it’s clearly not enough. I’m just so disappointed.
^

Wrong.

It's clearly too much. She has too much stuff so doesn't appreciate anything.

Elfinablender exactly.

When it comes to "gratitude" people so often hold children to ridiculous standards they wouldn't hold themselves or their partners to.

Imagine you got a smallish Christmas bonus every year from work and your employer announced that this year the company was spending everyone's bonus without consultation on taking all employees to a formal, high brow, very expensive sold out classical ballet production on a Sunday evening, attendance compulsory. Some people would love it but some would rather do an extra afternoon at work unpaid than go to that performance, despite understanding intellectually that it is considered a rare and special treat by ballet fans.

Should the employees be grateful for having their bonus spent for them on a show they are obligated to attend?

Or are only children expected to be universally grateful for anything and everything, especially things they don't want?

Anyway, I don’t know about anyone else’s kids, but I find that mine get SO MUCH (despite my best intentions) it would be hard for a six year old to keep track of exactly who got them what

^^

Yes. My five year old has no idea how much stuff he actually has. And he is as happy with a matchbox car/trip to the local park as he is to Disneyworld /ride in a Ferrari.

I think you have over reacted - you told her she was going to see a show rather than getting a gift and she was disappointed - not surprised she was disappointed, she would not have understood that the show was a great gift and you really shouldn't punish her for that. Her reaction was meant to make you react and understand how much she was disappointed by her so called gift. She is too young to know she's meant to pretend to like gifts because it's polite and she certainly would not understand having to pretend to you about enjoying someone else's gift. She's 6 and imo her reaction was completely age appropriate - you should have left the conversation until you have both calmed down and then tried to explain the nonsense that is gift giving - you pretend you like it, even if you don't!

Children these days just get so much ''stuff''.... A show sounds a good idea, but if she doesn't want to go, that's fine.
Boundaries and consequences really do need to be followed through, as children just know when parents are a pushover.
Years ago a child on a school trip found a modest amount of money and the head teacher took him to a supermarket to buy food for a food bank...the child never forgot.. {He is now a man}
Thinking of others who have much less can sometimes be a help, but children of 6 are generally self absorbed.
Agree totally about the sheer amount of ''stuff'' that most kids get given.It is very easy for them to take it all for granted.

Stop spoiling her then....

The way it was couched wasn’t ‘You know auntie X and uncle Z and auntie L and uncle M aren’t going to buy you a present this Christmas, but on Saturday we’re taking you to a show instead!’

We were walking to school and I said, ‘Ooh, this weekend we’re going to see a show about Dr Seuss!’

And she sighed and moaned in an ‘aaawwwww’ disappointed kind of way.

And I said, ‘come on DD, I don’t think that’s a nice way to carry on. That’s your xmas treat from the aunties and uncles.’

Then she did the sniffy ‘well I don’t believe in xmas’ thing

I don’t think she’d have had a sense of a physical present that had been snatched from her hands.

The normal format of xmas for her is, wake up, get presents from santa. Then get more presents from grandparents. Then get presents from aunties and uncles. Then probably get some random presents from some of grannies neighbours and various great aunts and uncles. There are an OVERWHELMING amount of presents.

Which is why I’m keen to cut back.

I can’t see how the solution to ‘I think she’s spoilt’ is to say, ‘ah, but you are denying her a gift!’

Do less stuff going forward around christmas.

I've made same mistake over one Easter kids were exhausted and not keen though they enjoy the booked events once there.

I'd gentle rebuke at the time tone or words that aren't nice - though often best to give a warning so they rethink.

Get her in social habit of saying thank you - making cards is a good way when they are young or quick call where she comes on and says thank you.

Then if she misbehaves on the day - take her out - and if not forget all this going forward.

Also maybe think it she'll benefit less from punishmnets and more from rewards - seem to help DS who could appear very unaffected by losing toys ect when younger but working towards things was highly motivated.

Does she need more time to just play and hang about at home?

Perhaps she's mirroring her best friend's approach and stance, which is understandable.

A good opportunity to talk about different cultures being respected, and whilst some people dismiss Christmas, it's part of her culture, and you don't want her to miss out on it, or to dismiss it and feel embarrased by it. Remind her that people have different traditions and customs, and we don't all have to celebrate the same things as our friends.

She's hardly come up with the sentiment 'I don't believe in Christmas' herself has she? It's obviously someone esle who has introduced her to this idea.

But on the stroppy behaviour - zero tolerance, on the sighing and eye rolling, too. Reinforce the importance of nice manners, appreciating gifts etc.

Some kids do this kind of pessimism thing - it is a type of anxiety.
I've worked with several children who whatver was offer immediately countered with ' I won;t like that, that sounds boring, I don't want to do that, etc etc.'
It's born of anxiety - about not knowin exactly what is involved (some children need to know exactly what is going to happen to feel secure and a show is a little unpredictable)
Some children find the massive build up to Christmas - at school and at home - completely overwhelming, this may have prompeted her 'don;t believe in Christmas' remark. Combined with having friends who don;t do Christmas for religious reasons - she might find the whole business rather confusing.
And some children express potential disappointment, because they fear disappointment - so they say they won't enjoy something to kind of cover that base. That is their way of coping if things don;t go to plan. it is similar to the adult attitude of 'hope for the best but prepare for the worst'

She doesn't sound particularly brattish to me. Rather than stress how grateful she should be, I'd jolly her along for the show - what is she going to choose to wear, does she want to take a little drink in a bottle and a few sweets, would she like to get a programme etc. She will almost certainly enjoy it when she gets there, then you can talk afterwards about what she liked best etc. that way she will gradually learn that often things turn out to be fun even if you aren't initially keen.

Oh boy. Some of these comments are way too harsh. She is six, and very tired and probably overwhelmed with all the excited magicky Christmas stuff going on at school.
I'd suggest waiting until a non stressed time ( not on way to school) and then chat about her stroppy behaviour.
Explain that when people do something nice and you huff and strop it is rude and hurts their feelings. You didn't like the way she reacted to the show idea because someone was being very kind and generous and you didn't want their feelings to be hurt.
Ask her what she means about not believing in Christmas and help her to manage the negative feelings she is having.
Explain that she can go to the show cheerfully and write a nice thank you card afterwards, or she doesn't have to, she can stay with X person while the rest of the family goes and you can offer her ticket to little brother's friend. Explain gently, not as a punishment.
Explain that if there is a problem with something she needs to explain it to you in a normal voice not stropping and you will listen and try and help.

Our DCs (5&7) have a similar lifestyle (lots of experiences, never a dull weekend, not materially spoilt) and we have had similar lately. I'm told they are polite, well mannered etc. so I don't think entertainment fatigue is the same as ungrateful or bratty.

I think, when they are at school in the week, they need more down time at the weekends. This week my kids had a school trip, a theatre group come to school and a class party. All their hobbies are having parties as well. It's just too much and it's hard to keep up the enthusiasm.

I had to separate my desire to share wonderful things with them, from the reality that they have so much already happening. There's a difference in emotion when you've been in an office all week and when you're 6 and been in Christmas mode all week.

Try a calm weekend, pottering around, playing with toys, dog walks etc. Let her be refreshed by it instead of entertained.

We were walking to school and I said, ‘Ooh, this weekend we’re going to see a show about Dr Seuss!’

She may be excited on the morning - time perception differs with age and there are several days yet to go.

• I said, ‘Ooh, this weekend we’re going to see a show about Dr Seuss!’ And she sighed and moaned in an ‘aaawwwww’ disappointed kind of way.*

In mine at this time of year that honestly might translate as being on the way to school with so much going on that the thought of doing more stuff this weekend seems like hard work and too much no matter what it is. They'd still enjoy it when we actually got to the point of going.

This is a timely thread because I'm going through the same thing with my just turned 8yo.

It was her birthday on Monday, mine on Tuesday. She was a total brat simply because it was now my birthday. DH asked her to write in my card and she started crying. She's been hard work to get to sleep. She keeps leaving her reading and spelling books at school. She has turned very lazy. All in the last six months.

I have two older ones who weren't like this. My plan is to start being firm with her, zero tolerance of bratty behaviour.

DS1 can be very like this and yes he was diagnosed with anxiety this year (he's 10). We'd actually gone in for assessment for ADHD (non hyperactive) - our suspicions were correct there but the doctor was more upfront concerned about anxiety, which we'd sort of twigged but hadn't really realised was such a big issue for him. He is mostly happy, despite the constant complaining. (I know that sounds weird, but it's not like he mopes around, just acts like a stroppy teenager, and has done since he was 3.) He attempts new things eventually, etc.

That's put an interesting light on things, anyway. I think we might be approaching the constant complaining a bit too harshly as well. For the anxiety we're looking at behavioural therapy which will hopefully help (we are not in the UK though so I don't know what's available there).