I’ve accidentally raised a brat and I don’t know how to deal with it

[Babayaggatheboneylegged]

I’m at a loss over how to deal with my six-year-old daughter.

She’s been a ‘tricky’ character all her life. As in, not very amenable and not one for just getting on with things. If she’s unhappy about a situation, she makes it VERY clear. She can be really sweet and caring, but she is very stroppy, sometimes with a self-destructive streak. She’s usually prepared to cut off her nose to spite her face.

This year, we agreed with my husband’s siblings (most of whom also have kids) that we’d chip in and get one present for the dc from the collective aunties and uncles, to reduce the sheer amount of STUFF the kids get. I’m particularly in favour of this as we live in a small house, and I just don’t think my kids really need anything. I hate that Christmas ‘thing’ of getting stuff for the sake of it.

So my kids have got tickets to a show this weekend as their ‘aunties and uncles’ pressie. I mentioned it to DD this morning on the way to school, and she sighed loudly and moaned. Like it was this massive chore to her.

I was thinking, WTF? I said she needed to remember how lucky she is, how that was no way to behave when we’re talking about a gift someone has given her etc.

She turned to me and said, ‘well, I don’t believe in Christmas!’

As is often the case with dd, I didn’t actually know what to say in response to this.

As she was going into school, I asked her again, nicely, to remember how lucky she was and she replied with the ‘I don’t even believe in Christmas,’ thing again. I said it didn’t matter what she believed in, she was very lucky and shouldn’t be spoilt and ungrateful. And then she went into school.

I think she is spoilt. We take her lots of nice places, we have a big extended family who are all really generous to her and she wants for nothing. We’ve never been the kind of parents who give her everything she asks for. We do say ‘no’ to a lot of stuff.

But it’s clearly not enough. I’m just so disappointed.

And I don’t know how to address it.

Part of me is SERIOUSLY tempted to say, well if you don’t believe in Christmas, we won’t do it then. And give her presents away. But I know I’d never actually go through with it.

But is there anything I can do without resorting to this sort of nuclear option? I so don’t want to raise an entitled and ungrateful child. And yet here we are…

Has anyone out there successfully tackled an attitude problem like this? Is she likely to grow out of this kind of thing?

Babayaggatheboneylegged does it not occur to you that you are making every day a battle by trying to make her be you. Until shes a people pleaser who defines herself in terms of how others see her you'll continue to butt heads...

I guess we're all different. I think it's acceptable to leave a child behind (with an adult) to have a dull time if they refused to go on a trip. My logic would be that they might not been so negative next time. It's worked for me before.

She's 6. I would definitely not be leaving her behind. Maybe she doesn't realize what she would be missing. I would be bigging it up hugely. Maybe she is struggling with the santa claus thing. Maybe older kids at school have been saying he doesn't exist and this has upset her. Thinking of conventional presents I don't suppose every kid is excited and emanored about every present she opens.

As adults we understand the huge expense involved and that its a huge street. 6 year olds don't understand that and can sometimes be happy with something much less which has taken her fancy. It may not be a sign of being spoilt just lack of understanding.

I wouldn't be leaving her behind op. She would never forget it her whole life long. Take her, big it up, let her see how excited the other kids are about it and see what happens.

huge treat ...not street.

She is 6, she doesnt have thw words to say 'that sounds like right shit and i dont want to go'

So she is using the words she has. She is not a brat. Have you considered that she might have aspergers or sensory issues and hates noisy unkown things? I might be totally wrong and apologies if i am, but most children are not bold or brats but are trying to deal with a lot.

I hope you dont punish her. She might even be just tired.

blueskiesandforests I suppose I do in some ways want her to be a bit more like me because I can relate to me!

A few people have mentioned Asperger’s, but she doesn’t have any sensory issues that I’m aware of. I don’t know that much about the condition, but she has quite a ‘sophisticated’ (to my mind) sense of humour that I don’t think fits with my understanding of Asperger’s. She’s not a ‘literal’ sort.

Just a stubborn wee bugger at times!

Ps thanks for all the input on this thread - it’s good to have some different perspectives!

OP just wanted to thank you for this thread. Going through a difficult time with DD (also 6) at the moment and really struggling and feel very alone. This thread has really helped.

Aspergers is a bit different with girls though, that sense of humour could have been copied from a parent, but many of us have ASD traits that do not meet any label requirements. My dd is so quick at copying, doing accents and telling elaborate fantasy stories it took me years to realise she parrots a lot of things. That aside, my dc both do a fair bit of childcare and my eldest really wanted control of her at home time as she didn’t have much. If you have busy working parents who plan and schedule things, sometimes it can be just too much. It could be your dd is more introverted than you in that she needs more st home downtime than you do.

I think aspergers has been mentioned because they will go for broke to avoid doing things that cause them trouble, I would perhaps talk to her about whether there is anything in her routine she’d like to change.

Sorry for being a bit late back to this thread, and apologies if I am getting over invested and completely misreading the situation.

It does sound like you like to provide them with “treats”. Rainforest cafe, days out, nice snacks - you think all of these are nice, special treats and as such you feel your daughter should be more demonstrably grateful. But it sounds like to her, they are just normal stuff that happens - she doesn’t know any different, and they aren’t things that she would actively choose, but she doesn’t get a choice in whether she participates or not.

When was the last time you saw her genuinely excited about something?

OP, I work in education and over the years I've definitely noticed an increase in parents indulging their children, pandering to their whims, do everything for them, give in to them for a quiet life. This can bite you in the behind unfortunately.

Not saying you do that, OP, but the problem is that some kids are very clever and quickly learn how to manipulate the people around them in order to get what they want; this can mean engaging in unpleasant behaviour, once they know your weak points.

I watched a video recently where a parent talked about a 'tough love' incident, her DD had been banned from the school bus for a week (not UK) because of her behaviour and said to her mum and dad "you'll have to take me to school all next week because I am not allowed on the bus". Now, how many of you would have done this? These parents instead decided that she would be walking to and from school that week (quite a distance). It would have been very inconvenient for them of course because one of them would have to accompany her, but what a lesson for their DD to learn!

I would imagine that next time she was on the bus she might think carefully about this unpleasant consequence of misbehaving far more than if she knew that her parents would take her to school in the car anyway.

The thing about consequences are that you have to think carefully about when to impose them and what exactly they will be. Then, you have to follow through every time. I did this with my two and OMG it was hard. Entire weekends and events totally scuppered. However, it did pay dividends eventually when one day my DS said "there is no point in arguing about this because you won't change your mind". Choose your battles wisely and follow through consequences.

I don’t want her to grow up with a complex, but I would like her to occasionally make life a little less hard for herself!

You may find when she is grown up that you will be very close (thinking of a friend and her 'tricky' dd)

She may be more closed off than you but still a perfectly nice, rounded person.

Just ease things off, spend more time at home, let everyone relax a bit.

A few people have mentioned Asperger’s,

Of course they have. This is MN.

I’m glad to hear it’s helped you too Pinkvici22

I think I/we try not to be too indulgent, but we probably are and I suppose that’s down to my personal enjoyment of ‘treats’ and ‘rewards’ which probably isn’t always helpful. It’s probably time to reign it back a bit.

I had a bit of a chat with DD when I got home and she was initially VERY reticent to talk about it. Eventually she put on a big laugh and told me she’d ‘pranked’ me, and that I totally fell for it.

So my interpretation is, I was narky with her about the tie, she was narky back at me when I gave her the opportunity by talking about the show, then she went into school and promptly forgot all about it.

Meanwhile I’ve stewed on it all day

I have two academically able DDs who are kind, empathetic and have a complex sense of humour. Very few people find it possible to accept that they have autism because their presentation is very subtle but it still has a huge impact on them.

They would both have been wary about going to a show and they would both have found it stressful, even if it was enjoyable and something they had been looking forward to.

DD2 would sabotage rewards in a heartbeat because it's easier to now that you won't receive a reward than to try to get it and lose it.

Christmas is a hugely difficult time of year for both of them. DD2 would bin the whole thing tomorrow, given half a chance.

Both watch people carefully to understand and follow social rules but can struggle with the more subtle ones. This can mean that they sometimes appear thoughtless or ungrateful. We don't need to address this with punishments; explanations and modelling are quite sufficient.

Most special occasions are difficult precisely because they are different and anxiety inducing. Children who cry or shut down when being treated to a lovely meal or show can appear to be ungrateful but it can also be a result of anxiety, sensory overload, social exhaustion and just craving an escape.

Lots of trips, visits and treats can be hard work, especially on top of the disruptions to routine that happen in school and almost every other area of life - even shopping becomes a more intense experience!

I would forget the sanctions because they are unlikely to help. Try planning for down-time, keeping to routines where possible, allowing her to communicate with you if she's struggling while also helping her understand when it is better to keep those feelings in and not trying to communicate with her when she's overloaded or stressed.

Behaviour is communication. It might help to spend more time trying to unpick what is causing it than trying to change it with sanctions and criticism.

Sounds like she was being honest, but didn’t express it in the ideal way. Plenty neurotypical DC don’t consider “outings” to be a treat.

I think your interpretation is spot on OP

She's not a brat if she volunteers to give her toys away.

me or DH will give her a big talking to where we patiently explain why it’s not ok to behave like that, why it’s hurtful etc.

Sounds like she gets lots of rows. That will make her unhappy.
Are you remembering to praise more than you criticise?

UnderMajorDomoMinor thanks

She gets loads of praise, because she’s often brilliant, but it doesn’t seem to mitigate the other behaviour!

I do try really hard to keep conflict to a minimum, but at the same time I’m frazzled with them and work and running all over town and remembering the dates and times of the xmas shows and what the school’s bloody fancy dress theme is this week and sometimes we do all snap. I think that’s probably what happened this morning. But lots of food for thought here for ways to try to get out of negative patterns and behaviours

Thanks everyone

Ds often says he was "tricking" me when he doesn't understand what I'm getting at. I wouldn't completely dismiss ASD based on what you've said but shelve it for now perhaps. As a pp said, it presents very differently in girls and they are very good at mimicking others so it's often not picked up until puberty - when relationships get more complicated - and then often misdiagnosed as anxiety or low mood.

Glad this one has blown over and maybe try to get some down time over Christmas for you all

Honestly I believe at this age the whole talking about things thing doesn't work. If behaviour isn't acceptable it gets shut down there and then. For example I'd have said "don't be ungrateful, if you don't want to believe in it that's fine, you don't have to share that opinion and you're not going to ruin it for anyone else". If she has a tantrum about it just ignore. And consequences are definitely important in general. If she's ungrateful then she doesn't go. Not necessarily just for this but for other things too. Sometimes kids need to be made to see just how lucky they are

Muuummm, why did you put RAISINS in my bowl?!’

Again. She’s six. Why can’t she ask why you put something you know she doesn’t like in her TREAT bowl?

She’s all kinds of fab and you’re trying to knock it out of her & make her passive and undemanding. Arghhhh. She’s determined, opinionated, sassy, knows her own mind and could turn into a brilliant woman with a strong personality, but not if you keep batting her down to ‘know her place’ It’s 2018 not 1950. Women are allowed to have options and make known.

I'm glad you have found posting here useful.
Your daughter sounds great!