DS is constantly grabbing bottoms

[TheVeryHungryDieter]

Because bottoms are, obviously, hilarious. 

He keeps smacking, patting and grabbing bottoms, pulling pants down to see underwear, grabbing at willies, trying to take pictures of bottoms when he manages to get DH's phone.

He does it to DH, friends at school, his 3yo sister

MNHQ could you please put a trigger warning on this thread's title?

And is there anything that MNHQ can do regarding safeguarding for this poor child, seeing as OP doesn't appear willing to address it herself?

He does it at school
Then he doesn't
He's not left with people
Then he is, and so on.

Sorry OP I'm not clear about your dh changing your dd as you said she had her knickers off so I thought as you said she was being changed you meant nappy being changed

It's nearly impossible to surmise what is really going on with your DS. But there are a few things that can be picked up from the thread though. It sounds as if you are at your wit's end around DS. You sound frustrated, exhausted, angry, resentful. You speak of "loathing" his behaviour, breaking his wrists to get him to stop etc. I think there's an incredible buildup of negative feelings in you - which is understanstandable since you seem to be bearing most of the brunt of DC's behaviour. Vicious circle. You're the one who gets to see him acting out most of the time, you're the one who gets pushed away and called "mean"... you see he has a lot of aggression and you're feeling the same towards him. My suggestion is: why don't you try an experiment. Try stop being the "mean" mother, stop "bending" him to your will, as you say. Forget about teaching him for a week, about being the authority, just be the "nice" one, laugh it off, or don't interfere when he's acting out...Try not to be artificial because children feel it immediately. No passive aggressiveness, just try being the nice big sister, buy sweets, take them to mcdonald's or whatever the DH keeps doing. Do this with genuine feelings. Imagine you've switched places with your loving sister. And try getting your son to be as much as possible with DH. He needs masculine presence now. Male boundaries, he's got enough female police already, a bit of motherly love now. It doesnt have to be physically affectionnate if he doesnt want it. It can just be munching on something in contented silence together. See what happens to your mood : do you feel less tense, do you lighten up, are you feeling less angry in your mind? And does DS change? Is he less attention-seeking, limit-pushing with you? Do you feel any anger towards DH? I really feel you are the one exploding under all this pressure, and in many ways you are alone - worse you are with someone who keeps all the "good parent" stuff to himself and leaves you all the bad cop stuff. You are not more naturally that person than he is. So start taking some of the nice stuff. Just for one week. Even if it means DS skipping his bath once or twice, or 3 times , or just staying in 5 minutes as you wont be behind the door checking on him.

Taking the talk to abuse to one side you have gotten with your DH into a very dangerous dynamic - one is the fun parent who give sin to everything the other gets into battles of wills at the smallest thing.

90 mins locked in his room for an apology for your DH; why did you get involved with a preschooler

You both have caused this - you have enabled him to be defiant

I don't see the OP sticking her head in the sand. As far as I can see, she's been examining her and her husband's parenting approaches and been honest about her son's behaviour and triggers and so forth. She's clearly unhappy about what's been going on, and is looking to deal with it.

And even if she wasn't, some of the posts on here are hardly helpful.

And I'm going to just throw this one in to the mix; that SS were informed of some pretty inappropriate sexual behaviour by an 8 year old I know of, towards a much younger child, and they shrugged it off and said it was "just play."
Go figure.

I know you've said you don't think he's autistic but this is something you might do well to read up on and bear in mind for the future. Children on the autism spectrum often mask their difficulties and it comes out in other ways. At aged 6, they aren't that different from their peers. Maybe a bit impetuous, find it hard to get social rules, perfect angels in school, difficult to get to sleep and often do better socially with children a bit older or younger than they do with their peers. What you said about him repeating behaviour that got a laugh once over and over again to try to repeat the laugh really struck a cord.

As they get older, the gap between them and their peers increases, anxiety and sensory overload can become more acute and everything can become a bit more obvious to their main carer(s) at least.

You're clearly struggling with this behaviour. Even if he is never assessed or isn't diagnosed, I have a feeling that understanding children with autism might help you understand and support him a little better.

If he is autistic, the suggestion of completely changing your approach to managing his behaviour could really throw him and make him anxious.

You and your dh need to get on the same pages. He cannot be the Disney/fun dad and leave you to deal with the hard stuff. Do you think some of it is a control issue? I have two autistic kids who both have adhd too. Some tools that are useful that work with kids who don’t have Sen would be things like visual timetables, structure and routine and social stories. If he’s got an iPad they’ve got great parental controls and you can shut off YouTube and other apps. This behaviour can’t go on. I have two who don’t like to go to bed. But you need to establish routines. Consistent routines. You absolutely must have a talk with him about this. How it isn’t funny and has anyone been doing this to him. This is a time for you and your dh to pull together. This isn’t “boys will be boys” ha ha. This is serious. And your dh needs to appreciate that.

Have you also looked at PDA? I know people are suggesting autism but pda might explain the stubborn behaviours. I’d also be thoughtful as to who he is spending his time with in his childcare provisions.

6 year olds don't invent stuff like that based on the cartoons alone. There is someone in this child's life who makes highly inappropriate behaviour look and feel like fun. Why?

Yep PDA/ODD are worth looking into.

I can’t comment on your update and won’t be commenting on the thread any further. It’s too upsetting/frustrating.

I think you and your oh need to display a united front with regards to behaviour, not only the bum touching/pants pulling but also bed times etc.

I agree with a pp you dh is acting like a Disney dad, forcing all the brunt work onto you, for an easy life. It's time he stepped up and parented his son. He thinks he will probably grow out of it, when? 6 months? Years? What if he doesn't? What is he going to do to protect you 3yo dd in the mean time or does her being sexually harassed by her own brother not bother him? (He'd be out the door it that was the case in my house)

Set a routine, make it none negotiable, bath or shower - no fighting he does it or goes straight to bed without a story. No sitting on the landing, trying to keep him in his room, if he comes down stairs he's taken straight back up, no arguing no reaction nothing. I'd stop any and all screens an hour before bed time.

I'd take him to his weekend activity instead of dh for a while. If he manages to keep his hands to himself all week then he can have sweets after the activity if not then nothing and dh won't be around to cave.

There does seem to be a lot of contradiction in your story. Is he pinching bums/pulling down pants at school or not? I can't imagine school would give him glowing reports if he's doing that when there. Is he with you all the time or not? You said he goes to breakfast club and a childminder as well as being at school.

I suggest to have a meeting with the school, go see your gp and contact ss to see if there's any parenting classes you and dh can do. You clearly can't go on as you are.

Child plays up
Mum attempts disapline
Dad gets annoyed because the peace is disturbed
Mum gives in

Child feeling like they've had attention and will repeat

Mum is annoyed at dad for not backing the tough decisions as she can see that nipping this in the bud will have a longer term effect

Dad buries his head in the sand and plays Disney dad

OP I'm not convinced he's being abused, nor am I convinced he has any SEN.

He's a child that needs firm rules and boundaries

Sit down with him and discuss house rules - write them up

Hitting ~ 10 mins time out
Touching - miss screen time

Then add a reward chart

Getting into bed nicely and listening to a story - 10 mins extra screen time (they have no idea - but look at the timer options so the screen dies)
Shower straight away - extra cake

Whatever works short term till it becomes natural and part of normal day

Does your oh do these kind of things to you in front of the children?

Oppositional defiance order, anyone?

I hope you can still navigate through all the negative attention you're getting on here OP... A lot of it is hysterical overreacting by pedo-obsessed moms. The whole world is not teeming with lechers trying to bang your kids or pedo-6 year olds, ladies.
Mist likely, it's a parenting issue the DS is trying to deal with in a childish way. Time to make him see authority in a positive light again by avoiding splitting tasks (evil witch authority mum/ "love, fun and games" dad). Good luck OP.

So OP is gravely concerned and can't cope on her own, and doesn't know what to do so is on here for advice...but absolutely refuses to contact any kind of third party organisation that could help her and DH deal with the situation, and support them in supporting their DS more effectively, as well as eliminate the possibility of autism, sensory issues, abuse etc?
And also doesn't seem interested in making any real changes in the family's home life and routine.
Clearly you're not gravely concerned, OP, if you won't take any steps to change things. It sounds like you've tried nothing and you're all out of ideas.

I feel for you OP, as it seems like you’re at your wits end, but I don’t know what you wanted to hear. It’s NOT normal behaviour. You seem to want people to tell you not to worry, as all practical advise is being met with excuses. You might scoff at the stronger words being said, but the fact is your son is abusing other children.

The bath and bed description of his behaviour say to me this is a child who behaves badly as he loves the attention.

So withdraw it.

It's bathtime. Run bath. Leave it and walk away. No more discussion re bath. No attention or even any shown care if he gets in or not.

Same with bed. Story and night. Sit with dh. So even acknowledge ds existence if he gets up. Let him wander and try to interrupt. Don't even look at his direction.

When he grabs inappropriately take him way. No words no nothing. Take him away from the situation with no reaction.

Alongside this praise EVERYTHING even remotely acceptable.

Good sitting at breakfast table.
Wow that's good holding your spoon.
You ate that marvellously - you didn't drop a drop.
Nice walking down the road. Etc etc

Make him realise what behaviour gets your attention. Forget rewards and punishment. They don't work for you or him.

figuresofdelight actually a lot of us just seem to be aware of red flags for abuse. As in actual indicators of abuse. I didn't say what I said in hysteria or because I am obsessed with anything, but because I've had extensive safeguarding training. I have also had first hand experience of being sexually abused as a child (in a very public area surrounded by people who were completely unaware, if you must know and think this kind of thing doesn't really happen) and have also had experience dealing with a child at my child's school who sounds similar to the OPs (although no where near as extreme) and it turned out an older child at his childminder's house was touching him inappropriately at breakfast. The child IS behaving in ways he might if something terrible was going on, or if he needed additional support with something else, either way seeing a GP now would surely be better than farting around with different parenting techniques allowing children to be humiliated and molested in the meantime.

I think the OP did well to stay on this thread for so long what with the hysteria calling her 6 year old child an abuser, abused, and potential rapist, and her husband and herself bad parents. Patience of a saint! Mumsnet can be over the top sometimes.

Going by what the OP said it sounds like she has her wits about her to know that her child has a few issues which need sorted but they are issues which can be ironed out. There’s absolutely no need for SS, police or school intervention at this stage. Just some discipline, teamwork and careful parenting, and he should grown out of it soon enough.

I'm unsure if OP is still reading this but what will eventually happen is your DS will do it to another child who is upset and that child will have a parent who has been sexually assaulted as a child and will freak out.
That parent will be telling all and sundry about your child's inappropriate behaviour and in not so many words, your DH is going to become suspect in their eyes of abusing his son and causing the behaviour and your child will be ostracized as no one will allow play dates etc at your house.
If my DD had a boy pulling her pants down or poking at her bottom, I'd be going mental to the school. I'd also assume he learnt that behaviour from being abused himself and guess where suspect number 1 would be....
Your DH doing himself NO favours by his Disney parenting