I used to be a sex worker, ask me anything

[FeminismIsForALLWomen]

For 12 years I worked as an escort, I also did occasional phone & cam work. I varied between working full time and part time, but around half was full time and the other half part time.

I've been put off doing one of these because of how they usually go but I'm always banging on about people making assumptions about sex workers and accepting stereotypes about us so I might as well.

To be clear, this is a thread for people who want to ask questions, not for people who just want to make a point about sex work or sex workers.

Anyway, if anybody cares...ask away

@missusthepointagain Just googled FIFAW because I though it was an acronym so I feel a bit daft now

Not sure if this has been asked, but if you met someone as a potential serious partner, would their precious use of sex workers cause you any concern. Youve indicated your views regarding street workers so would assume you'd be put off by that? But what about if they had used people like yourself.

It depends on the situation. I wouldn't ever consider having any kind of relationship with anyone who had paid a vulnerable person for sex. But I would, depending on the person, consider a relationship with someone who had paid for sex if they had made an effort to find someone who was working of their own accord & if they had a good understanding that they're paying for a service and it's not a hook up. Imo it's more important that their behaviour demonstrates that they respect boundaries and treat people respectfully than if they've paid for sex.

Has any implications for the relationship and potential faithfulness?

Not really, but again it depends on specifics. A hobbyist or someone repeatedly being unfaithful with sex workers is obviously likely to be unfaithful again, but a man who's visited sex workers when single isn't any more or less likely to cheat than the next guy.

Says anything about their attitude to women?

Paying for sex, in itself, isn't an indication of attitude towards women. I've seen and been on the receiving end of some shocking misogyny from men who think paying for sex is wrong. Obviously there are a lot of men who pay for sex who have a terrible attitude towards women, but this is because they think they're more likely to get away with this behaviour with vulnerable sex workers. Anyone who targets a vulnerable worker or who pushes/ ignores boundaries has a shit attitude towards women, but that's based on their behaviour towards the worker. Since not all clients do that, and a lot act very respectfully, I'd say that the act of paying for sex is not an indicator of a man's attitude towards women, but their behaviour towards sex workers definitely is.

Whether it is always a (potential) habit as opposed to a one (or two) off.

It's not always a habit. I'd say most often it's something men use as a crutch at a difficult time in their life or something they do when they're single. Hobbyists are often desperate for attention and reassurance so I think maybe they'd struggle to give up paying for sex, but fortunately I think they're in a minority.

Thanks for the thread, it's been really interesting

You're welcome

You said that you felt safer as an independent; how does that work in terms of the initial advertising to then meeting clients and then being alone with them

@cluecu I'm not 100% what you're asking but in terms of safety, it's easier to feel safe if you have spoken to the client yourself, screened them yourself and organised your own buddy/check-in procedures with people you trust. As an indie for me it was more about limiting exposure to dangerous clients than having security available when I was in the room. Hope that's answered your question, if I've misunderstood please say.

Do you have children?

I have one child, who's quite young and the best thing in the world

Have you ever fallen pregnant by a customer? (Condom split etc)

No. I've never known anyone personally who's been made pregnant by a client but I have heard the odd story.

"@missusthepointagain Just googled FIFAW because I though it was an acronym so I feel a bit daft now"

Does sound like a mumsnet acronym. Sorry. Funny.

Thanks for your insight, it's really interesting. I'm asking partly out of self interest. My partner has paid for sex twice. 20 years ago. Brothel, UK, with mates.

Won't go into the details here for fear of outing, but it's an ongoing big psychological issue for me. Had I known this before I met him I would not have entered into the relationship (would you understand that, I think so from your reply maybe). But, guess what, I love him, and he is the kindest, most tender and sensitive man I've been out with.

My ongoing issue is mostly for "Feminist" reasons (I'm pretty radical, and so what does it say about his attitude to women... which seems fine after 3 years), but also for trust ones (if this is who he is, what else is he up to that I don't know about. Not sure mumsnet helps with this as cam/porn/sex addiction seems rife).

I went out with someone many years ago (20 years past) who had done the same, years before me, in the UK and Amsterdam (again, this was revealed some months into the relationship, it's not something that's discussed is it on a first date) and it didn't end well. Not sex workers to be fair but something far worse but somehow connected I suppose. That's a long painful story too and is obviously feeding into my current dilemma.

I don't suppose I'm really looking for reassurance. Don't think that will ever come. My gut says he is genuine and it was behaviour born out of the "scene" he was in and the company he was keeping at the time. Was two decades ago. Was somewhat the norm in his "industry". But, who knows.

Thanks. Super interesting thread.

My partner has paid for sex twice. 20 years ago. Brothel, UK, with mates.

Honestly @missusthepointagain I think these situations depend on specifics, and I won't ask you to be outing but I'd say it really depends on the situation of the women working in the brothel and how it was run. I'm not sure I could be with someone who had ever paid for sex with a vulnerable person, even if it was 20 years ago, but simply being in a brothel doesn't mean someone is vulnerable, there's a massive difference in how different places are run & the circumstances of someone working in them.

The bigger red flag for me would be being easily led/weak willed or blaming his behaviour on his friends or colleagues. I'm not saying this is your situation, but If he recognised it was a bad situation for the women there but did it anyway because everyone else did, and is blaming it on other people 20 years later then I'd get rid immediately. On the other hand if it was a well run place I'd probably feel differently, but honestly a well run place wouldn't let a whole group of lads in.

An important thing to mention is that attitudes towards women can be easily found by a man's attitude towards sex workers. If he thinks all sex workers are sluts, then he thinks what a woman does sexually is instrumental in who she is as a person & obvs that's not good. If he thinks all sex workers are victims then he doesn't recognise the complexity of the situation or individual choices and that's not good either. Ultimately, if he doesn't respect sex workers as individuals, views us in derogatory ways, or thinks that only victims are 'good', then he likely has a bad view of womens sexuality and women in general.

Not sex workers to be fair but something far worse but somehow connected I suppose. That's a long painful story too and is obviously feeding into my current dilemma.

I'm intrigued as to what this could be, I don't expect you to give specifics but I think it's fair to say that a lot of people assume all bad sexual behaviour is somehow connected to sex workers, when this is not necessarily the case. I'm sorry for whatever it was

Thank you. Helpful. I think! And I agree that all of these things are about details and context.

I really appreciate this thread actually.

Hmmm. I will out myself if I give too many details but I think there were three of them, so not a big group. The other two were habitual (at all sorts, not just that!), and regulars. So yes, the story is very much he got dragged along. His mates (the regulars) paid. Which sounds like bullshit, but am tempted to actually think it's true for all sorts of reasons.

But yes. Weak willed? Was at the end of a long and drunken/adled night out I understand. I suppose he thinks this is a mitigating factor, but you're actually right, it's probably the opposite!

Said it wasn't for him. Wot say more due to outing but know some details. But, hey, men probably all say that. And allegedly has never been or employed any type of sex worker again.

I really appreciate this thread actually.

Good, I'm glad it's been a bit helpful to you. The main reason I started it was because I'm so tired of people talking about sex workers as if they're one dimensional stereotypes instead of recognising that everyone who's done sex work is human and complicated, and so is the industry as a whole.

I hope everything works out for you ❤️

Said it wasn't for him. Wot say more due to outing but know some details. But, hey, men probably all say that. And allegedly has never been or employed any type of sex worker again.

@missusthepointagain sorry we x posted. I honestly can't say from the details if I think he's a bad 'un. He might be, he might not. I hope he's not but if he talks in a derogatory way about sex workers, 'sluts', etc, doesn't respect your boundaries, or engages in any kind of victim blaming I'd think again about him.

How does it go at the beginning of a session, so it's not awkward or uncomfortable between you?

Thank you for your reply on my question it was very insightful

"How does it go at the beginning of a session, so it's not awkward or uncomfortable between you?"

@CrumbsThatsQuick Depends on the person really. I'd usually greet them with a smile & kiss on the cheek, I didn't let them touch me any more than that before they'd paid. I'd ask for the money as soon as we were in the room & the hello was done, if they hadn't offered it already. I'd ask (or tell) them to shower after that. I'm quite tactile and I found smiling, chatting & touching on the arms relaxes people. I didn't have a set of moves to start a session but if they were nervous I'd invite them to sit next to me on the bed and casually touch them in a non-sexual way, and chat about TV or whatever.

You're welcome @cluecu !

Will you tell your child in the future what you worked as?
Very interesting thread thanks!
What type of hotels would you hire out? Travelodge type places or more upmarket?
How do you feel about kissing someone? I would consider that a very intimate and personal thing tbh even more so than sex in a way! I can see how you can detach yourself from sex, not something I personally could do but can kind of grasp that.
How did you start off advertising your services? Is it done in a newspaper or are there specific sites?

Will you tell your child in the future what you worked as?

Yes I will, at some stage. I'd hate them to hear about it from someone else, and I want them to understand that a woman's worth doesn't depend on what she does or doesn't do sexually.

What type of hotels would you hire out? Travelodge type places or more upmarket?

Usually Holiday Inn types or an apartment. Never anything too expensive or I'd just be working to cover costs, my nightly budget was usually my hourly rate.

How do you feel about kissing someone? I would consider that a very intimate and personal thing tbh even more so than sex in a way! I can see how you can detach yourself from sex, not something I personally could do but can kind of grasp that.

I agree it's a lot more intimate than sex but that in itself wasn't really a problem for me. My main problem with it was the amount of men who had bad teeth or bad breath, I would only give them pecks. Also there are so many terrible kissers in the world who think it's enjoyable to suck half your face off like they're a teenager, someone getting to their 30s+ without learning how to kiss is quite sad really.

How did you start off advertising your services? Is it done in a newspaper or are there specific sites?

When I started advertising for myself it was pretty much mainly online and I've never used any other way. I know people who used to use newspaper advertising, and some still do, but it's not really that common anymore. There are a couple of selling/buying sites that have escort sections and a lot of specific sites like escort directories. I used the ones that came highest in the search rankings and also had my own site.

Also used to be an escort op, don’t miss it!

@Greeneyes78 I'm not surprised I actually do miss bits of it, which I think is probably very weird, but I wonder how much of that is knowing that I can't do it now in a pandemic so the safety net has been taken away to some extent.

@FeminismIsForALLWomen
Just wanted to thank you for such an interesting thread, which I've just read from start to end. And to congratulate you on your patient, dignified and articulate responses to the various outbursts of hostility

Thank you @AuntyPonsonby, that's lovely to hear. Patience is, unfortunately, needed to be a sex worker these days (probably always was) and not only because a lot of of clients act like illiterate idiots but because some feminists attack us too while telling us they want to save us lol.

I doubt I'll ever regret it, and I can't rule out going back to it if life returns to normal, but my life would have been easier if I'd never made that decision, simply because society views us as somehow 'less' (although I do worry I'd be very ignorant about a lot of things if I hadn't).

If say a fairly dull admin job paid the same hourly rate and offered the same flexibility (this is in theory, I know that doesn't exist), would you have chosen to do that instead?
You seem to have been drawn to these features rather than the sex aspect so just curious if I've read that right, or whether the sex itself was part of the draw for you too?

Abuse doesn't make someone incapable of making decisions or giving consent.

What an incredibly stupid thing to say.

What an incredibly stupid thing to say.

I said this in the context of a PP using previous abuse in sex workers as a reason why they can't be listened to, which is ridiculous. I certainly wasn't saying that previous abuse in an individual isn't a deeply traumatic experience that won't or can't affect their lives, I'm saying that you can't tell another adult they can't consent or make certain decisions (even if you consider them to be bad decisions) simply because they have a history of abuse.

I didn't mean to offend or trigger anyone, but I stand by the point that using previous abuse as a way to tell sex workers, or anyone, that they don't know their own minds is not ok.

If say a fairly dull admin job paid the same hourly rate and offered the same flexibility (this is in theory, I know that doesn't exist), would you have chosen to do that instead?
You seem to have been drawn to these features rather than the sex aspect so just curious if I've read that right, or whether the sex itself was part of the draw for you too?

I saw this question this morning and have given it some thought, and I honestly don't know. It's true that the sex wasn't the reason I did the job, but that's true with most jobs I've had. When I was a cleaner I wasn't in it for the love of cleaning toilets, and when I did bar work I certainly wasn't there to be shouted at by entitled arseholes!

I wouldn't choose to work in an office, but if cleaning paid the same as sex work I think I'd definitely consider doing that instead. In reality though there are bits of sex work that utilise creativity and other skills and I wonder if I'd get very bored in another job. I like the job I have now but it is a lot less interesting.

I think I'd probably pick the sensible option nowadays but I doubt that's what I would have chosen ten years ago.

I said this in the context of a PP using previous abuse in sex workers as a reason why they can't be listened to, which is ridiculous. I certainly wasn't saying that previous abuse in an individual isn't a deeply traumatic experience that won't or can't affect their lives

I haven’t seen anyone on this thread say that prostituted women shouldn’t be listened to because they’ve been abused. That would be pretty inhumane victim blaming.

I'm saying that you can't tell another adult they can't consent or make certain decisions (even if you consider them to be bad decisions) simply because they have a history of abuse

You’re talking about two separate things here.
Can someone tell another adult what to do? No.

Is it reasonable to infer that historical abuse is the reason for a woman making bad choices and that it might muddy the waters about how much agency she has to consent? Yes.

Is it unreasonable to argue that allowing men to buy your disassociated body for their sexual gratification isn’t an objectively bad decision or an act of self harm?

I would say it isn’t.

You seem to be saying it is.

As long as we live in a society where men feel entitled to sex and to be able to buy access to women’s bodies, all women will continue to suffer misogyny under the patriarchy.

I haven’t seen anyone on this thread say that prostituted women shouldn’t be listened to because they’ve been abused. That would be pretty inhumane victim blaming.

Firstly, I've met a huge amount of current and former sex workers and the vast vast majority object to being called 'prostituted women'. I hope you'd listen to any other marginalised person when they told you not to call them a certain term, so please afford sex workers the same courtesy.

Secondly, the comments about sex workers all apparently having being abused were not only misleading and inaccurate, but only ever seem to be made towards those who are expressing an opinion that the commenter disagrees with. I've been called some horrible things on here but the implication that sex workers don't know their own mind because they 'must' have been abused is the worst.

I agree that it's inhumane and dehumanising. I don't have personal experience of abuse so I'm not going to speak for people who have, but I will say if you want to know about this then you need to seek out current sex workers who have suffered it and listen to them. Unfortunately it's not likely they'll want to speak to you if you continue talking about sex workers like this.

When you say this "Is it reasonable to infer that historical abuse is the reason for a woman making bad choices and that it might muddy the waters about how much agency she has to consent? Yes." you are making a judgement on someone else's ability to consent, and that's not ok. When the previous poster falsely claimed that all sex workers have been abused the implication was that they can't consent and can't make good decisions. I'll say it again, I'm not trying to deny the effects of abuse, but the previous poster was saying that it applies to everyone, which is not true.

Is it unreasonable to argue that allowing men to buy your disassociated body for their sexual gratification isn’t an objectively bad decision or an act of self harm?

I would say it isn’t.

I'm not saying it can't be an act of self harm, but it's unfair to imply that it always is, which is what the previous poster was trying to do.

As long as we live in a society where men feel entitled to sex and to be able to buy access to women’s bodies, all women will continue to suffer misogyny under the patriarchy.

If you don't like the fact that sex work exists that's fair enough! But it does, and if you want to help sex workers you need to stop assuming your opinion is correct and start listening properly.

I'm not going to get into an argument with you, mainly because I doubt anything could change your mind, but please remember that your opinion is not necessarily factual, and please listen to sex workers when they say your language and behaviour is making life worse for them.

Pretending that all sex workers are somehow damaged or abused is just not true. There is a wide range of experiences and needs in sex workers, and acting like we've all had the same lives, while using dehumanising language and insisting you know best just doesn't help anyone.