to ask why people still do not believe that Islamophobia doesn’t exist and therefore doesn’t need an official definition?

A definition could include:
a) derogatory comments about dress
b) stereotypes connecting Muslims with terrorism
c)tropes about Muslim culture as savage or uncivilised
d) tropes about Muslims wanting to take over the world
e) attacking mosques or intimidating the people attending
f) any verbal abuse or physical attack based on the victim being Muslim

It's an idelogically tendencious term, which is used to gaslight anyone expressing legitimate concerns about islamic terror, and the threat to freedom of speech and democracy posed by islamic fundamentalists.

I am much more concerned about the Israelophobia, which is running rampant amongs the 'woke' brigade, and moslems, and my thoughts are with the hostages and their loved ones. Israel is under seige surrounded by hostile Iranian proxies. The fears of Israelis, and their supporters, are real and not part of a 'phobia'.

@qwerty14 A working definition clarifies the issue so that governments and law makers can be clear on what we are talking about. Hate crime laws are not sufficient, as this thread is full of demonising tropes and stereotypes and so are other forms of media. If they were sufficient we would not have a society that tolerates the persecution of a minority. We can argue about dress, it is just an example of othering. The point is that the perpetration of negative stereotypes and untruths can lead to violence against that group, as demonstrated by recent rioters. Therefore we need to fully analyse how this othering works, name it and include it in our laws and policies.

Thank you for those that actually responded to the original question .

Looking at the thread, it seems it has been derailed and monopolised into an opportunity to bash women that wear hijabs with a thinly disguised veil of ‘concern’.
And that is a form of Islamophobia that I am talking about -
Those that have discussed why women are being controlled , being made to cover up would never care about women’s rights in other context, why other religions have head covering, turbans , clothing etc etc but it’s an issue if it’s Muslims .

muslim women as all women are not one homogeneous group, we do not represent anyone but ourselves , however this is not the topic of the thread.

If there was a working definition of islamaphobia ot whatever you want to call it , what do you think it should include?

@qwerty14 A working definition clarifies the issue so that governments and law makers can be clear on what we are talking about. Hate crime laws are not sufficient, as this thread is full of demonising tropes and stereotypes and so are other forms of media. If they were sufficient we would not have a society that tolerates the persecution of a minority. We can argue about dress, it is just an example of othering. The point is that the perpetration of negative stereotypes and untruths can lead to violence against that group, as demonstrated by recent rioters. Therefore we need to fully analyse how this othering works, name it and include it in our laws and policies.

What is the point in commenting honestly on a topic when the moderation is going to delete the comment? Where is the freedom of expression? Why is MN censoring opposing views?

I don’t think I will bother writing anything if it’s only going to get deleted for hurting someone’s feelings. What about MY feelings? My truth as a non-Muslim woman from the Middle East who is intimately acquainted with the religion and culture in question?

How are you a victim when your complaint can get someone’s valid but opposing comment deleted?

Before you all start attacking truth-tellers, go and see what Katherine Birbalsingh has had to endure or what Douglas Murray so bravely says. Before you embrace this crocodile tears of a culture/religion, take stock of what you are giving up in order to embrace this culture and its people who DON’T want to embrace you unless you convert to their medieval way of life that is obsessed with dying, sin and hell.

Sometimes I do have concerns about non British attitudes towards women. When working in Scotland as a doctor - which is nowhere near as diversified as London and the south- I was always treated with the utmost respect by my male colleagues. Thereafter I got a job down south after completing my foundation years and it was the first time I found myself working as a doctor in a team of predominately male Drs and from places including Iran, Sudan, Lebanon. I kid you not - the following actually happened. On a ward round one day- some of these male doctors took it upon themselves to openly discuss my appearance and attractiveness on a quantifiable scale- with one announcing that I “pass” and am quite good - but I just need a breast enhancement. A boob job. They also used to conduct some ward rounds speaking Arabic to the point where some patients were visibly uncomfortable and complained to management. Who did nothing. These same doctors were applying for permanent residence after working for 5 years - on some occasions asking me to witness/sign their applications. I know that in Scotland I would never have been told I need a boob job by my male colleagues. I don’t know how to express concerns/questions regarding others cultural attitudes towards women - without people quick to jump on you as being right wing. So I said nothing and let the boob job comment side. I left that hospital.

Who would be charged under new Islmophobic hate crime laws. This boy scuffed a Koran at school and had to apologise in a Mosque. Would it mean that he would be charged with a hate crime?

I don't want secondrey school teachers to wear a full hijab because I think that it would be harder to communicate with the class with a fully covered face, would I be allowed to express this viewpoint or would it be considered a hate crime?

It would have a chilling effect on free speech as it would be unclear where the boundary was between what is allowed and not allowed.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11821157/14-year-old-autistic-boys-naive-prank-scuffed-copy-Koran.html

What is the point in commenting honestly on a topic when the moderation is going to delete the comment? Where is the freedom of expression? Why is MN censoring opposing views?

I don’t think I will bother writing anything if it’s only going to get deleted for hurting someone’s feelings. What about MY feelings? My truth as a non-Muslim woman from the Middle East who is intimately acquainted with the religion and culture in question?

How are you a victim when your complaint can get someone’s valid but opposing comment deleted?

Before you all start attacking truth-tellers, go and see what Katherine Birbalsingh has had to endure or what Douglas Murray so bravely says. Before you embrace this crocodile tears of a culture/religion, take stock of what you are giving up in order to embrace this culture and its people who DON’T want to embrace you unless you convert to their medieval way of life that is obsessed with dying, sin and hell.

The county's problems are due to political and economic policies not because of people who chose to practice their religion.
You are the type of person to moan about the country becoming a shithole and foreigners taking your job... Whereas the truth is it it because you yourself are a failure. It is easier to hide your failings by blaming someone else.

I think it depends on the definition really and whether thats expanded to other religions. People must be free to criticise and mock religion, it’s a fundamental part of freedom of speech. What I worry about is blasphemy laws through the back door or only one religion having protection from mockery and criticism.

Harm and abuse to an individual person is already covered by hate speech law and other legislation.

I’m an atheist and I’d rather have less protection for religion than more to be frank. I’m asian and can completely understand how it’s a mix of racism and religious prejudice that people face. But I am extremely wary of any law which can be used to make valid criticism an offence.

Too harsh. Totally unreasonable to go round calling people failures and the reason for all their problems lol.

As a Catholic woman who has lived in Muslim communities never have I Ever experienced this.
What a vile character you are labeling someone's religion like this.

No doubt you were amongst friends on your March today.

As a Catholic woman who has lived in Muslim communities never have I Ever experienced this.
What a vile character you are labeling someone's religion like this.

No doubt you were amongst friends on your March today.

I’m an immigrant from the Middle East, so you’re wrong about me feeling at home with fascists.

Muslim communities do not equal Muslim countries. The communities here still live under British law and customs, therefore they are a meek little minority rather than the fascist bullying majority that I am acquainted with back home. Back in Turkey, I was reprimanded for hanging my washed bra outside on my private balcony that no one can see, except for those busybodies who go looking for sin to correct. I was groped by men on public transport because I didn’t lower my gaze and they took it as an invitation to be lewd and obscene.

Please go and live in an Islamic country before you make naive comments that suggest you don’t know what you’re talking about.

I'm.sorry for your experience.
However, in this advanced nation, we also have rapists and people who assualt women.
We have police officers who rape and murder women.

It is the person who chooses to commit these assaults not a religion or a culture.
Being Irish was often abused and shouted at for being a terrorist during the 90s.
Did nothing but only speak with an Irish accent.
Therefore, I will not sit back and tolerate any other person from any faith or country being abused.