to ask why people still do not believe that Islamophobia doesn’t exist and therefore doesn’t need an official definition?

We ALL have a responsibility to dial back our rhetoric and treat one another with moderation and respect. ALL of us, on mumsnet, twitter, TV, everywhere. That's the only way we can combat extremism and we all have a responsibility to do it.

I agree with this. but trump is a wannabe fascist though, the jan6th uprising and recently he said after 2024 he would "fix it so good" no one would need to vote again. he is incredibly dangerous.
ultimately poverty, lack of education- these are the real issues. people of all races who are impoverished in the uk are frustrated and angry and looking for spmeone to blame after all the austerity, the economic bin fire, covid etc.

Specific laws in blasphemy just for their religion. Or did you miss that. That's what the OP wants.

@NewGreenDuck thank you.

Shall we open up the conversation to those too? All for it.

If certain groups don’t want to integrate and get on with their lives in peace so be it, for example there are many Jewish groups London who do just that, let them get on with it is say, they cause no issues for themselves, or the wider community.

Same for some Muslims, some/most Muslims I know, are perfectly happy integrating, please find where I said they aren’t. That poster went off on a tangent, and I’m quite shocked they felt the need to, having not understand my point, rather I’m racists and bigoted and hate Muslims. Right.

Just look to the international community, for guidance on how to relate to each other, travel a little.

This fucking thread is nuts.

I think this thread is in pretty poor taste. Several children have just been violently murdered, several more still fighting for their lives. First we had the far right psychos making it all about them and now you're trying to politicize their murders too. The only people my thoughts are with right now are those poor children and their families who have just had their lives destroyed. You're no better. There's a time for these discussions sure but I don't think today is the time. Have some respect.

How about thinking of the three little girls who were killed rather than 'thank god he wasn't Muslim'.

The poster who mentioned the IRA and pointed out that all Catholics did not feel the need to apologise for the IRA's acts has a great point.
By coalescing into a single, identified, named organisation, the IRA (not "Catholics") became the people blamed for those acts.

When extremists who act in a way they associate with Islam commit terrorism, they is no one 'THESE GUYS' organisation to blame. It was Al-Qaeda, then ISIS, then ISIL, then other names popped up and honestly, it's all a blur.

I think it's fair to fear extremists who want others dead. Since we don't have a name for all extremists who act in a way they associate with Islam (because they aren't an homogeneous group!) it becomes difficult to know 'who the enemy is', IYSWIM. The blame and fear gets transmitted onto the one identifiable characteristic - Islam.

Anyone who works with, is friends with, talks to, likes Muslims knows that Islam is not the problem, it's the extremists who do terrible things. But we don't know what to call those people, and they are amorphous and faceless, which breeds more fear and distrust. Islamophobia is the fallout.

This is so tragic, as the extremists acting in a way they associate with Islam (note, they are TO ME, not Islamic/Muslim/faithful, as they don't represent Islam in the true sense) presumably don't want negative consequences for the religion they associate with. Not to mention Muslims being tarred with the broad brush of 'those scary people I don't have a name for or concept of'.

Being able to ask questions and be honest goes a long way towards breaking down fear and distrust. It takes courage and curiosity.

Where did OP say she wants blasphemy laws for Islam? What I saw was a definition for Islamophobia actually is.

Well ISIS, ISIL and Daesh all mean Islamic state. So I think we can safely say they are Muslim.

Why would you try to insinuate that the OP doesn't care about the three little girls that were so tragically killed?

Has it not occurred to you that the OP might be horrified by the murder of three young children and concerned about threats to her own community if the perpetrator had turned out to be Muslim? As we have seen, Muslims were targeted because of assumptions that the perpetrator was Muslim even when this was based on deliberate misinformation, so her fears seem pretty legitimate to me.

I wonder what your agenda was in this post? Were you trying to suggest that Muslim people wouldn't be upset about the murders of three innocent children? Or are you just so incredibly stupid that you are incapable of holding more than one thought in your mind at any one time, and you therefore assume that others can't do that either?

The notion that Saudi Arabia "isn't properly Islamic" is such a ridiculous argument but it's advanced all the time.

It's such a cheap attempt to avoid confronting some hard truths.

Who gets to judge what constitutes "properly Islamic"?

The poster who mentioned the IRA and pointed out that all Catholics did not feel the need to apologise for the IRA's acts has a great point.
By coalescing into a single, identified, named organisation, the IRA (not "Catholics") became the people blamed for those acts.

That is not quite accurate, Irish people (not Catholics) were blamed and treated badly during the IRA campaign in the 70s and 80s, but they didn't look "Irish" they were white so weren't so easily identified. My aunt worked as a nurse in England she put on an English accent when on the bus and out in public because otherwise she would have been shouted at and verbally abused and she was scared. I still remember being in pub in London in the early noughties and having a group of drunk men crowding around me and screaming and shouting at me for all the trauma and disruption I had caused them living in London during their childhoods because of the IRA.

I do feel for Muslim people, no one should be scared or abused because of their faith or blamed for the actions of others, respect, tolerance and dignity would go a long way.

Unfortunately, in both the Muslim and non-Muslim community this isn't the case.

Yesterday I took my daughters to a park which is outside of the area I live and in a majority white British community.

Two boys threw water bottles at me whilst I was leaving. I wear hijab so it's obvious I'm Muslim. They couldn't have been older than 11 or 12.

Honestly I was lost for words as I have never been a victim of discrimination or racism in my life.

Whether that incident was related to the murders or not, I don't know.

But as we've already seen far right groups are focusing on the attackers more than the victims themselves.

They are extremist illegal terrorist organisations, there has been many over the decades from all walks of life not sure what point you are trying to make? or was your statement meant to be directed at a poster that you may have forgotten to tag?

Some areas are of course worse than others, no-one is denying that and whilst what’s happened to you is inexcusable, it’s still a minority group of people. The majority of people do not behave like that towards others. Thats my point which you seem to have missed. If the majority of people were intolerant then you’d be experiencing these issues every day, all day long. Most people would condemn these actions of these people. That’s my point. Most people just want to get on with living their lives in peace and don’t care about other folks race, religion, appearance, etc. And if you look at the laws in their country, they are definitely trying to be progressive and to protect minorities. Hate crime laws, equality laws, etc. if you’d been able to identify and have these people who assaulted you arrested, then they would’ve been prosecuted because what they did was a crime and we do not tolerate that in the UK.

I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. 💐

I do believe all face/head coverings should be banned in the UK.

It also bothers me to see women and their daughters in full black swim wear that they must be boiling in, when their husbands and sons are there in a pair of shorts.

That is something I am strongly against.

You can't make laws against Islamophobia without making legitimate criticism of Islam illegal as well, as the line would be impossible to draw.

We already have laws against attacking people or property, and inciting people to attack people or property.

We do not need extra laws to make criticism of fairy stories illegal.

I hate all religion and my right to do so is also protected in law, banning Islamophobia would infringe on my rights, and would not be a progressive move.

I want to criticise people who bomb concerts, buses and tube trains. I want to criticise people who abused Jess Phillips(even though I dislike her politics) at her vote count. I want to criticise people who force teachers into hiding. I want to criticise people who send death threats to autistic children and their mother. Just as I want to criticise Catholic paedophiles, and Jewish supporters of genocide in Gaza.

Islam is a religion, it deserves no more protection in law than Alice in Wonderland, same for any other religion.

There is a perception that many Muslims haven’t done anything like as much as Hindus and Sikhs to integrate and instead want to change the country to their ideology and culture rather than largely accept a largely tolerant liberal country. I am inclined to agree, unless that changes we will always have problems.

Any other items of clothing you would like to ban?

face/head coverings - do you want to ban hats? glasses, sunglasses?

This is an extremely helpful post. I have Muslim colleagues who I consider friends. Varying degrees of observance and some drink, some don’t. One used to join everyone for after work drinks and enjoyed virgin pornstar martinis.

But I am fearful of Islamic extremists and it’s unclear where extremism begins. I wouldn’t consider the 3 Islamic organisations who sued Charlie Hebdo in 2006 to be in anyway extremist but think their actions in the name is Islam encouraged more extreme reactions. France values its culture of free speech, who are they to challenge that in any name?

You support the state dictating what women can and can't wear?

Do you support religions telling women what to wear?