Women win guarantee over female only public lavatories - the Times

[chilling19]

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www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7355c886-1aea-11eb-8493-5b46eb56a071?shareToken=4752a364029a4a557a2ba26a99d985d4

Of course it all depends on the definition of the words 'women' and 'female'.

Gender neutral toilets are a good thing provided they are in addition to single sex and not instead of.

Another positive step.

I like how he also clarified that schools and workplaces also need to provide single-sex toilets.

This is good news, but I can almost guarantee that "woman only" means by gender not by sex. But its better than all out "gender neutral". A small step in the right direction.

at least it's a concrete acknowledgement that mixed sex toilets exclude a considerable number of women

want to be inclusive?

provide single sex toilets

Now for the clarification we can challenge those born male...

Doesn't matter what they say if asking them to leave is a hate incident

I completely support single sex multi-cubicle spaces and individual spaces for anyone. Works really well.

When there are mixed sex spaces in addition to male and female, it makes it much more obvious what is in play when men continue to demand access to the women’s.

@AnyOldPrion

When there are mixed sex spaces in addition to male and female, it makes it much more obvious what is in play when men continue to demand access to the women’s.

Doesn't it!

Jo March is in the comments!

That's really good.

The amount of women's toilets that have been relabelled neutral/ mixed sex, while the men's are left alone is ridiculous.

Women are left with no single sex facilities while men keep theirs and are able to use all the others as well.

It takes the fucking piss (pun slightly intended!).

This is not about trans as such but about women's basic provision being reduced/ removed, often a reduction in safety/ cleanliness, while men get the run of everything. All while we already had long queues.

EG our tube station changed signage a year or so ago. So there is men's, with cubical and urinals. The two which were women's cubicles are now anyone. Then there's the mixed sex disabled.

It makes me quite angry tbh.

From the Gov press release.
The review will look to gather views from all those interested as well as calling on the technical knowledge of industry experts.
www.gov.uk/government/news/government-review-to-boost-the-provision-of-toilets-for-women-and-men
The technical review, led by the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, aims to address this by considering the ratio of female toilets needed versus the number for men, given the need for women to use always use cubicles, and will address misconceptions that removing sex-specific toilets are a requirement of equality legislation.

This is already the case for regulations and guidance for the provision of toilets in schools, where separate provision of male and female toilets is required.

It would also take into account the needs of all members of the community, to ensure there is a fair provision of accessible and unisex toilets for the disabled and families with children. Ahead of providing clearer guidance to all those operating public toilets in England.

As ever the comments are fantastic! Jo March, if you are reading this, I greatly appreciate the contributions you make.

Jo March is so knowledgeable and to the point. She never forgets mum’s “child wrangling”! That I find really touching having done a great deal of it myself.

When I am in a position to do so I am tempted to subscribe to the Times, mainly for the comments, and Janice of course!

Once I was working in (publicly funded) organisation, where all buildings had gender neutral single toilets. 2 things happened:

• In the offices, women's stickers were put on 10% of the toilets and everyone used the toilet according to sex, ignoring the gender neutral signs. (workforce had 10% women). offices had key swipe cards so only the staff working there knew. No-one mentioned it. It was a massive relief.

• whereas in the public areas like the restaurant there were no stickers, (or if there were they were removed) and the toilets stank. Women and men avoided them.

Thanks imnobody

Ways to respond
Email to:[email protected]

Call for evidence
www.gov.uk/government/consultations/toilet-provision-for-men-and-women-call-for-evidence

Just saw this from Ralph Lucas on Twitter
'As those who remember t.co/I0P2WRghKO will know, I think that this is good news. The review should look at making most men-only toilets unisex, while keeping women-only toilets, as a solution to unequal queues and to transgender access issues'
Hmmm - interesting.

This is a good beginning especially the part about school provision. I think that the suggestion of using the men’s for everyone might be useful and certainly will prove the point that some men only want access to the women’s. At all costs. The GRC is an obstacle but should not be a reason for exceptions.

The review should look at making most men-only toilets unisex, while keeping women-only toilets, as a solution to unequal queues and to transgender access issues

This would be the most effective, practical solution to all issues. If these were the real and actual issues.

However it may help to expose what the real and actual issues are and put them squarely in public discussion.

Is it 'hate' to acknowledge there is such a thing as a female sex class that by its very existence excludes those born male?

Should those in the female sex class be allowed equal respect in identifying themselves, their needs, their spaces, privacy, dignity and boundaries, as is afforded to all other groups?

Let's talk about consent and if female people should have a right to maintain their usual boundaries (standard for decades, written into policies) where they are in a state of undress or vulnerability, even if some male people don't agree they should?

And then we can chat about what we actually mean by inclusion too, particularly around disability, religious and cultural freedom of belief, that kind of thing

It’s a good start as it forces organisations to actually think about the provision of toilets and single sex spaces rather than lazily saying everyone can just go in the “gender neutral”.

However single sex is meaningless when one can identify into whichever sex they wish.

Thank you for the token and for posting.

Sent my email. It’s true that until males of whatever belief system are kept well away from our facilities, we will have to challenge each and every one...

"The review should look at making most men-only toilets unisex, while keeping women-only toilets, as a solution to unequal queues and to transgender access issues"

I think that's a good idea. Making the men-only toilets unisex would have been useful to me when I was a mother of young boys who didn't want to come in the ladies with me any more but I was wary about sending them into the gents on their own. It would reduce queues for the ladies in theatres etc. as those who didn't mind using the unisex with men could do so. But would leave a women-only option for women who would prefer that.

The Home Office installed gender neutral lavatories in 2018. The BBC has gender neutral lavatories in all of its buildings, in addition to lavatories for men and women. Channel 4 installed gender neutral lavatories in 2017.

This is actually what is needed: men's, women's, and gender neutral. Everyone is provided with facilities they can use comfortably. Nobody is left out in the cold.

Of course, it doesn't provide validation, for some, if the single sex provision is just that. So it will not be accepted as the new normal without a battle.

Having thought a bit more about this I feel heartened. The fact that the word sex not gender is used. The statement about The Equality Act enabling single sex provision. The statement about taking size of different groups into account.

Is this an indication the Gov will resist amending the Equality Act while being prepared to enforce the single sex provisions? Is this how Liz Truss will outwit the Women's and Equalities committee? I'm starting to think she may be smarter than I've given her credit for. Or maybe I'm clutching at straws.

It is a step in the right direction. Wouldn't have seen this a year ago.

Progress. Good.