Jordan Peterson(723 Posts)
Thoughts on this man......
He has a good grasp on reality and the free speech implications of TRA agenda.
He is no feminist though. Seems to share the idea that gender roles are innate, or at least should be reinforced.
I heard someone say recently (but no link was supplied) that he said women do not reach full adulthood until they give birth.
this would have worked better if you'd linked to actual Youtube.
also there are some previous threads on him here which you could read if you use the search function.
I suspect it would be impossible for any person to tick all boxes. However in this fight against neo Marxism and the transgender ideology he is a powerful voice. I totally admire his outspoken stance on the silencing of free speech, particularly in universities.
Jordan Peterson - a stupid persons idea of a smart person.
Which seems to sum him up on every level.
No make up in the work place because it is sexually provocative. Which is just one example.
This was another "interesting" thought:
I heard him in Radio 4's Start the Week the other morning. Here's the link:
He starts off very plausibly and positively but they had placed him up against Louise O'Neill, an Irish feminist whose work focusses on the patriarchy (which Peterson denies exists), Hashi Mohamed, a barrister who came to the UK as a Somali refugee and Lawrence Wright, Texas-born lawyer and Pulitzer Prize winner. It was an interesting combination and I think the BBC deserves a pat on the back for putting them together so that Peterson didn't steamroller through it.
There was also a very acute presenter (Tom Sutcliffe) who asked a number of incisive questions and wasn't scared of Peterson. When he was up against three liberal but unquestionably alpha men who were questioning masculinity and its effect on the world, Peterson faltered and looked like what he is — a clever, probably autistic man coldly defending masculinity and violence with rather blunt logic. There was a moment when he decried the feminisation of men as being the cause of male violence and the Irish feminist tentatively came back at him and was firmly supported by Sutcliffe (I think it was Sutcliffe) and I had a little cheer. I think it was rather good and quite important to see / hear Peterson being forensically challenged, and given that they only had a few minutes to do it it was well done.
Peterson is no friend to women in general and feminists in particular. His contempt for the female, the feminine, is all there, barely hidden. Handle with extreme care.
Do you randomly diagnose people as autistic frequently?
I find him interesting - however I am sceptical.
My 18 year old son has cited him when discussing the need for free speech. As a university student with liberal views, this is heartening to hear from my son. he is very much against the silencing of any debate and if Peterson has taught him that, I am pleased.
I worry what else he might be getting from him though. Thankfully you son is critical about every viewpoint and seeks out alternative ideas.
You will note that I said 'probably autistic'.
And yes, having started my career working with people with learning difficulties including autism, and having a couple of autistic friends and a high-functioning close relative, I do sometimes find myself listening to people, or watching the way they are negotiating their way in the world , and finding a way of understanding them by considering the possibility that they may be autistic.
I heard him talking to Russel Brand on his podcast (it usually has quite good thinkers on if you ignore Russel Brand) and was not impressed.
He believes that cultural imagery is innate within the people of a culture and not reflective of the culture that the people live in. So he believes fairy tails are interesting because they tell us the themes that exist within humanity rather than as a reflection of the values of society they are told in.
He’s like a mirror to my beliefs, from afar it looks the same but it’s actually completely inverted.
He has interesting ideas and I’d much rather debate with him because at least he listens and doesn’t shot over people and genuinely seems interested in exploring ideas, but he’s no friend to women.
Commonly labelled as “right wing”, “alt right” or “far right”. All false, can only be considered “right wing” in the way that these days anyone who isn’t far left is right wing. Is probably best described as a “centrist” or “classical British liberal”. Has spent his academic career focused on the atrocities committed by both the Far Right and Far Left in the 20th Century.
Can be considered “anti feminist” because:
1)Is pro equality of opportunity, is anti equality of outcome eg against all women shortlists
2)Is anti identity politics and intersectionality, both of which are core to modern third wave feminism. Is critical of ideas like white privilege, white guilt, male privilege etc
3)Is critical of concepts like patriarchy, toxic masculinity etc
4)Believes the paygap isn’t due to discrimination but because of different choices made by men and women. Believes these choices are due to inherent differences in interests and personality between men and women. Knows all the relevant studies that support the “nature” element of these differences inside and out
Of course, the fact that he is pro equality of opportunity does not mean that he is anti-women, just that he is anti positive discrimination on the basis of sex, race, or any other group characteristic.
The question worth asking is why the left-leaning media feels the need to write hit piece after hit piece about him.
I believe @TheRealPosieParker (username?) said she was attending his talk on Sunday. He clearly is not “anti feminist”, just the intersectional identity politics strand of feminism.
Anyone concerned about the messages he is giving their sons, daughters and partners (the idea that his audience is all white men is a myth) should remember that concepts like Patriarchy, Rape Culture, Toxic Masculinity, White Privilege etc are all academic theories – you can’t prove them not in the way you can prove/demonstrate gravity for example. As previously mentioned all of his opinions re differences between men and women are backed up by multiple scientific studies – dismissing these studies entirely is just science denial
a nobody who the altright have catapulted into prominence. When you know anything about his subject he is even more obviously such an ignoramus.
@MerchFach "You will note that I said 'probably autistic'.
Considering he has hours upon hours of lecture footage dating back to his Harvard days, has sold out lectures on Bible stories, is currently on a worldwide book tour, frequently appears on podcasts, tv and radio
Then he is clearly a very charismatic and magnetic speaker. The reviews he gets on ratemyprofessor from his students refer to "lifechanging" experiences.
This doesn't really chime with someone that is "autistic"
I can only assume that you're referring to his general demeanour when in a debate setting eg the Cathy Newman interview and the fact that his emotions are very hard to read.
I would attribute that to his 20+ years of experience as a clinical psychologist which presumably required him to suppress emotions and focus on the patient sat across from him and make sure the session was as productive as possible.
Perhaps also you're using the fact that he is very firm and confident in his beliefs, sometimes autistic people can be very narrowminded or focused?
Regardless I think you're way off track with that comment
that he said women do not reach full adulthood until they give birth
Well that would explain my husband to be fair...never gonna reach full adulthood
People, like Robert Webb, that smugly announce Peterson is the stupid person's smart person is the height of arseholery.
Peterson is intelligent, he's well read and he reaches conclusions based on his work and academic experience. I think he, like many other males on the right of centre, are talking in plain speak and saying things that resonate with many many people. I'm not so lazy as to immediately categorise him as on the right, I happen to agree with much of what he says. Take responsibility for yourself, don't have more that you can afford, compelled speech is the first step to totalitarianism and so on. But I also instinctively disagree with him on lots of stuff. I haven't read Jung and so when he talks about archetypes and other theories I'll trust his view on it.
I feel very uncomfortable about some of the undercurrents of what I perceive to be anti feminist, but I'm not sure he is. I do think there are broad genetic components to sexed based behaviour. I would imagine evolution requires there to be different basic skill sets in each sex, the foolishness is to take that as an absolute.
People I admire or listen to don't have to fit neatly into an A* list of perfectly aligned views. The best thing is to be open minded and listen to lots of views before deciding upon your own.
He isn't autistic. He's learned to reign in his emotions especially now he's in the media spotlight.
I heard the R4 program too- thank you for linking it. Definitely worth listening to.
It's funny that a man who is criticising SJWs is labelled far right....
How peculiar and yet so typical of the sorts of slurs SJWs engage in.
People, like Robert Webb, that smugly announce Peterson is the stupid person's smart person is the height of arseholery
I didn't realise that Robert "Patriarchy is the trick that makes women do rubbish jobs" Webb had commented on JBP.
Turns out his tweet was "Peterson is your thinking idiot’s idea of a public intellectual."
The irony is that's just a rehash of a Canadian article that called him the "stupid persons smart person", so Webb can't even think up his own lines
Posie - i pretty much agree with your summation on him. His views are definitely interesting. I don’t think he is anti women or alt right though i did stop following him as I didn’t like many of his followers and their general tone. I’d need to listen to the discussion linked to - I haven’t seen anyone get the better of him yet.
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