Jordan Peterson

[Perimental]

dl-tube.com/watch?v=UFwfJVv9P34#.Wvvtj8Hnqjk.link

Thoughts on this man......

also this

If we move beyond the boundaries of civil discourse, we know what the next step is. [violence]. That’s forbidden in discourse with women

gosh he is bound by social conventions isn't he? however I think a quick peek at Karen Ingala Smoth's website will make it clear that while violence against women is illegal, it is not in any way so taboo that it never happens. Plenty of men feel perfectly free to employ violence against women that they consider to be 'crazy' under Peterson's interpretation.

@ReluctantCamper

"Except he never said that re Hawking or Gandhi"

"direct quote from a person who at 19.13 you said chooses his words very carefully"

Please tell me where he refers to Hawking or Gandhi.

Check out the link I've posted, it's a reduction to absurdity fallacy - you've gone for the most extreme/ridiculous examples of "men that don't fight back" in order to discredit his statement.

I picked Stephen Hawking as an example of a person who was so physically disabled that fighting was never going to be an option. There are many men who are similarly disabled. Is Peterson really saying that if there is anything that prevents a person from fighting him, be that a physical disability, or the fact that they are smaller and weaker than him so the exercise would be pointless (i.e. they're a woman) he does not know how to have a serious disagreement with them?

Again, bizarre.

Ghandi was a man?

Stephen Hawking was a man?

the quote is if you're talking to a man...

Not some men. Not everyone except Ghandi. 'A man', meaning men as a group.

jeez.

To quote Melvin Udall in As Good as it gets, he makes you want to be a better man.

@ReluctantCamper

"Is Peterson really saying that if there is anything that prevents a person from fighting him, be that a physical disability

@ReluctantCamper

"Is Peterson really saying that if there is anything that prevents a person from fighting him, be that a physical disability

I think the threat thing is true though, this is why trans women are not women and don't seem female to me. There is a threat of violence and substantial damage from a man, I do a thousand calculations whenever cat called about the risk of my response. I don't this so much with women, violence is much less likely. There is also implied hierarchy of men based on physicality of money isn't an issue.

I like listening to him and am currently reading his book. I think he makes some useful points. I find his forthrightness refreshing.

There are many things I don’t agree with him. The violence thing specifically I find a strange way of looking at things. The example he gave was of a woman campaigner who compared him to a Nazi. He said he would know how to deal with a man who did that, but didn’t know what to do with her because she is female. Is he seriously saying that if a man vilified him he would punch his lights out? Really? The Radio 4 conversation was good, and highlighted some of the flaws in what he says (e.g. the denial of structural inequalities).

The positives to his message for me are about taking responsibility, as much as you can, do what you can to make the world a better place for yourself, your family, and society more broadly.

I remember when there were hardly any female doctors, lawyers, accountants, comedians...and clever men like Petersen used to explain very reasonably that it was because women weren’t scientific enough, or too illogical, or innumerate or they didn’t have a sense of humour. Silly women and their silly ladybrains! Now that women do all those jobs, and even outnumber men in some of them, the misogynists cling to those handful of jobs where women are the minority as evidence of the ladybrain. If you point out that actually in some cultures women do enter those professions in large numbers, they have an answer for that too. Doesn’t it strike you as all rather desperate, frankly?

@ReluctantCamper "Is Peterson really saying that if there is anything that prevents a person from fighting him, be that a physical disability"

No of course he's not saying that, you know it as well as I do and you're just being deliberately obtuse and doubling/tripling down on your fallacious reasoning.

If I say "I'm so lucky, my husband always does the cooking"

Then you saying "what, even when he was recuperating from his kidney transplant?" is a similar reduction to absurdity, because you've gone for the most extreme scenario where my statement is no longer true.

Of course, the absurd reply only tends to be used when people make definitive statements like "always", but really it doesn't need you to plump to the absurd to disprove the notion of "always"

"'If you’re talking to a man who wouldn’t fight with you under any circumstances whatsoever, then you’re talking to someone to whom you have absolutely no respect'

I am absolutely astounded by this. If he was talking to Stephen Hawking he would have absolutely no respect for him? How about Ghandi?

What a bizarre thing to say."

You seem to have misquoted/out of context.

" when men are talking to each other in any serious manner, that underlying threat of physicality is always there, especially if it’s a real conversation. It keeps the thing civilized to some degree. If you’re talking to a man who wouldn’t fight with you under any circumstances whatsoever, then you’re talking to someone [for] whom you have absolutely no respect. "

i.e. that the risk of being punched in the face greatly informs male-male interactions and engenders some degree of respect.

I don't think this has anything to do with Gandhi or Stephen Hawking, but rather an acknowledgment that violence is an inherently masculine trait.

twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/935393500031459328

I'm sorry, does this mean I'm not allowed to read and understand the words of a man who "chooses his words very carefully", but must first put them through the special fmsfms filter to explain them properly?

Bobbins my lovely. He is very clearly stating his case. If violence is not a possibility he doesn't know what to do.

I'll say it again, that is fucking bizarre. And must seriously impair his ability to relate to women.

the risk of being punched in the face greatly informs male-male interactions and engenders some degree of respect

fucking hell

@reluctantcamper

No, it just means you should avoid using fallacious reasoning.

This 1 minute video from the Big Bang Theory should give you a clear demonstration of what a reduction to absurdity looks/sounds like. I've tried explaining it you but clearly it's not sinking in!

there are things I agree with JP on and things where I think he's wildly wide of the mark.

but the idea that people are uncritically accepting statements like the ones I have quoted above makes me wonder what else they're swallowing without thought.

also I quite enjoy provoking people who lurve anything quite as much as some people seem to love JP. It's a personality flaw, what can I say.

Oh believe me, your trolling nature has not gone unnoticed.

fucking hell

? Male body building (muscle) makes men more sexually attractive (more likely to procreate). A bigger threat to, or less vulnerable to, the threat of other males.

More respect from other men and more attractive to women.

I consider my wrist firmly slapped fms.

reading through that transcript though

it seems to me that it’s sane women who have to stand up against their crazy sisters and say, ‘Look, enough of that. Enough man-hating. Enough pathology. Enough bringing disgrace on us as a gender.’

uh huh. I am responsible for the actions of some nutjob because we both have a uterus (I assume he means sex not gender).

Reluctant camper I think it was the woman (Camile?) who said that strangely enough...

Of course I am fully aware that among many men there is an attitude that if a man cannot fight he's worthless. Look, The Big Country is one of my favourite films.

I would however expect a man who makes his living using his brain to have had a little think about that attitude and realise what it means to people who can't fight. And that includes women.

or maybe not.... ignore me . I am supposed to be working not procrastinating inaccurately on here!