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Can you all just lay off trans people

(743 Posts)
cjferg Sat 10-Feb-18 17:11:36

There is a difference between sex and gender. Some people's align, other people's don't. Some people are biologically female, and their gender doesn't match that and vies versa. Some people don't have a gender. Why do you care so much?

One of my best friends in school was biologically a female. When he 'came out' to me as trans and explained how he had never felt comfortable in his body all I thought (and anyone who knew him) was that I wasn't surprised and that it made a lot of sense and we all got on with our lives. This was about age 17 and he said he had known this since he was a kid (not saying that any kid who says they want to should be able to willy nilly block their hormones, etc, btw)
It wasn't just about 'presenting as a male'. He was actually a male in a female body.
Yes, when he started presenting as male he felt a lot better. I remember he didn't want to go to our prom because of all the dressing up, etc. until we suggested he wear a tux, and it was amazing to see him so comfortable.
But still he hated having tits and having to wear a binder (can be done safely if you get a proper binder and don't just use bandages or w/e so don't even start)
It wasn't enough to just stuff the front of the trousers.
I repeat, he was a man trapped in a woman's body. Not just a cross dressing woman, not just in an experimental phase.

I have another friend who is biologically a female but they don't have a gender. They are known as 'they' not 'he'or 'she' and knowing them you would in no way think that they are either male or female, again not just about looking a certain way.

I also see a lot of people on here ranting about trans people and they literally only care about transwomen. Genuinely, what has happend to you that you feel so threatened at the thought of someone with a penis being the same gender as you?

Stop ranting about how men are going to use it as an excuse to perv on your kid in a changing room. I'd bet quite a lot that more women will perv on your kid in a changing room than men pretending to be trans will.

Gender is evolving all the time there are no definitive rules to being a man or a woman.

For every thing that you think being a woman is, there will be a woman who disagrees with you.
You say that being a woman means having a uterus - does that make people who've had theirs removed for medical reasons not women?

If being a woman means the ability to have babies then does that mean infertile women aren't women?

If you think being a man is the ability to grow facial hair does that mean that men who can't aren't men?

I read about a woman who had poly cystic ovaries and had a luxurious, thick beard and moustache as a result. Does that mean she is a man or less of a woman? Or should she have continued to try and shave and wax it off and be ashamed of it rather than accept herself the way she was and rock the beard?

Seriously, we've come a long way from being a woman meaning you're your husband's property and having to squirt out babies and clean your whole life. Why are you so determined to go backwards?

Stop using the teeny possibility of a man pretending to be trans to invade women's spaces as a vehicle for your hatred and open your mind enough to at least try and understand the issue, because it might be your kid. It might be your dad. It might be your bff 4eva. If that were the case would you ostracise them from your life and declare them a fraud, or have a little empathy and try and support them through something potentially life changing.

drops mic

ItsNotUnusualToBe Sat 10-Feb-18 17:13:29

I'm not sure you've read these boards properly if that's what you think.

BarrackerBarmer Sat 10-Feb-18 17:13:45

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RowenaDedalus Sat 10-Feb-18 17:15:20

I don't want to take anyone's rights away from them or criticise them for living their way. I simply don't want my rights, or feelings as a woman to be completely disregarded by people who have not lived as a woman for as long as me. I don't know less about being a woman than transgender women and I can't cope with the loud transgender women group on twitter acting like I do.

OlennasWimple Sat 10-Feb-18 17:15:23

I'm not sure you understand what gender means

StillTryingHard Sat 10-Feb-18 17:15:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Backenette Sat 10-Feb-18 17:15:31

No one is hating people who suffer from gender dysphoria.

Everyone is worried about sex as a protected characteristic being removed which would nullify pretty much every bit of sexual equality legislation there is.

Do you understand that?

Anlaf Sat 10-Feb-18 17:15:35

takes mic from Barracker and gives it back to cjferg

Stick around OP, give yourself permission to think critically, talk to the women, and transwomen (and transman!) who post on this board. Discuss your ideas!

BarrackerBarmer Sat 10-Feb-18 17:16:04

I'll engage with you if you can actually demonstrate that you have correctly understood the gender critical position and can argue against that.

Your ignorance is astounding. Stop broadcasting it so loudly. Seriously, turn off your mic and go and read something about this.

OlennasWimple Sat 10-Feb-18 17:16:21

not saying that any kid who says they want to should be able to willy nilly block their hormones, etc, btw

And that sentence there ^^ ? That makes you a transphobic bigot

McTufty Sat 10-Feb-18 17:16:51

The point is OP that there are occasions where it is biological sex which matters, and gender is irrelevant e.g. Women's sport, intimate examinations of rape victims etc

However some trans people aren't content to recognise that their sex retains importance in some circumstances and demand to be treated in accordance with their indentified gender notwithstanding their sex. This is what is causing the problem.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole Sat 10-Feb-18 17:17:09

I also see a lot of people on here ranting about trans people and they literally only care about transwomen. Genuinely, what has happend to you that you feel so threatened at the thought of someone with a penis being the same gender as you?

The focus is on transwomen as this forum is predominately female and the whole trans thing directly conflicts with womens rights, womens only spaces and the health and wellbeing of children.

I have no issue with any individual transsexual people. But the direction transactivists are going in directly affects me, and my gender non conforming child.

So no, I will not lay off, regardless of how lovely your trans friends are or how much someone tells me that this does not affect me and I am being 'hysterical' or whatever.

And a woman with PCOS is still a woman, unlike male people with penises. She can keep a beard if she choses to. Feminists are AGAINST gender stereotypes.

NoSquirrels Sat 10-Feb-18 17:17:26

Gender is evolving all the time there are no definitive rules to being a man or a woman

Indeed.

I suspect most people on this board are well on your side with the “appearance is not the issue” stuff.

Do have a read and a think and come back with some points you’d like clarified.

LangCleg Sat 10-Feb-18 17:17:49

drops mic

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

That's the bestestestestest (and another est) bit of undeserved self-congratulation I've ever seen.

Thanks, OP, you've right cheered me up.

Reala Sat 10-Feb-18 17:18:16

Oh dear.

windchimesabotage Sat 10-Feb-18 17:18:31

well I agree with you on some points but youve also been pretty offensive here. There are very valid reasons some feminists are against the way some trans rights campaigners operate. Its not all about fear mongering over men using self id to perv on women. Its also about the voice of biological women being drowned out... and that is important because women with female biology need the language and organisation to be able to campaign for their rights. To some women it may seem like someone who has penis who wishes to prevent them from using the word woman to mean someone who has a vagina, is silencing their voice.

I do support trans rights and I have a trans friend and to me she is a woman even though she has a penis.
The issue I have is with the way some branches of trans activism infringes upon the very hard won rights of women who have completely female reproductive systems. Women have been controlled and oppressed due to their reproductive system and are still being in many ways, and so it is very important that they can talk about that.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole Sat 10-Feb-18 17:18:47

Also 'women are more likely to perv than men are' (parapharasing) makes you sound like a MRA. Or TRA, I cannot tell the difference these days

Frequency Sat 10-Feb-18 17:19:36

There is a difference between sex and gender

Which is exactly what the threads you are complaining about are saying. Gender is a social construct, sex is biological fact.

Some spaces are separated by sex and need to remain so to protect vulnerable people.

Stop using the teeny possibility of a man pretending to be trans to invade women's spaces as a vehicle for your hatred and open your mind enough to at least try and understand the issue, because it might be your kid. It might be your dad. It might be your bff 4eva. If that were the case would you ostracise them from your life and declare them a fraud, or have a little empathy and try and support them through something potentially life changing

1) It is my child. She is gay, she does not want to fuck a transwomen, not because she is transphobic, she's actually dating a transman. She is attracted to the female sex.

2) Every transwoman I've read about wanting to serve their sentence in a woman's prison has been convicted of a violent or sexual crime, often against women.

Fishfingersandwichnocheese Sat 10-Feb-18 17:19:41

Someone with a penis is a biological male therefore in safe spaces for females should not be present.

This isn’t that hard. Men are quite often a danger to women. Yes that’s males are often a danger to females. That’s why we have sex segregation.

People who feel like they are are in the wrong body for I feel sad that they are struggling and feel unhappy. I support their right to dress and be referred to as they please if it makes them happy. But this does not make them female. A penis is a male sex organ and comes attached to a biological male.


Non binary is just bizzare to me. I do not “identify” as male or female. I don’t feel like either. I am me. I AM female. Its a simple as that. I cannot identity out of the problems that come with being female. I fail to see how identifying as such helps us break the ridiculous societal stereotypes of our sexes. If anything it re enforces it.

NotTerfNorCis Sat 10-Feb-18 17:20:23

Hi cjferg interesting stuff. So is being trans actually alienation from your own body or is it powerful identification with the stereotyped roles, behaviours and experiences of the opposite sex? Could the second lead to the first?

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole Sat 10-Feb-18 17:20:37

The point is OP that there are occasions where it is biological sex which matters, and gender is irrelevant e.g. Women's sport, intimate examinations of rape victims etc

Gender is always irrelevant. As its just a bunch of stereotypes. Its always sex that is important. Areas are segregated by sex. Womens rights are based on sex. And so on.

I know you know this already, but I found the wording of this unfortunate when dealing with a TRA as it will be twisted.

PotatoesOfTheCarribean Sat 10-Feb-18 17:20:48

Oh fgs, mic drop? 😂😂😂

Just parking myself here. 🍿

Wheresmyfuckingcupcake Sat 10-Feb-18 17:21:33

Couldn’t stand to read all of that.
Whatever qualities these people may have to recommend them (a certain naive credulity?) they do not have the gift of succinct, pithy argument.

Anlaf Sat 10-Feb-18 17:21:52

Lang

It has an air of leaving women to pick up your shit for you, doesn't it

I have another friend who is biologically a female but they don't have a gender.

I think this describes me. I don't insist on they pronouns though, and arguably I do have a gender cos people treat me in a particular way because I am biologically female ("a woman") like your friend.

Fishfingersandwichnocheese Sat 10-Feb-18 17:22:33

Also you might want to have a read up about the numerous cases where people have used self ID to their benefit and to the detriment of women.

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