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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can you all just lay off trans people

742 replies

cjferg · 10/02/2018 17:11

There is a difference between sex and gender. Some people's align, other people's don't. Some people are biologically female, and their gender doesn't match that and vies versa. Some people don't have a gender. Why do you care so much?

One of my best friends in school was biologically a female. When he 'came out' to me as trans and explained how he had never felt comfortable in his body all I thought (and anyone who knew him) was that I wasn't surprised and that it made a lot of sense and we all got on with our lives. This was about age 17 and he said he had known this since he was a kid (not saying that any kid who says they want to should be able to willy nilly block their hormones, etc, btw)
It wasn't just about 'presenting as a male'. He was actually a male in a female body.
Yes, when he started presenting as male he felt a lot better. I remember he didn't want to go to our prom because of all the dressing up, etc. until we suggested he wear a tux, and it was amazing to see him so comfortable.
But still he hated having tits and having to wear a binder (can be done safely if you get a proper binder and don't just use bandages or w/e so don't even start)
It wasn't enough to just stuff the front of the trousers.
I repeat, he was a man trapped in a woman's body. Not just a cross dressing woman, not just in an experimental phase.

I have another friend who is biologically a female but they don't have a gender. They are known as 'they' not 'he'or 'she' and knowing them you would in no way think that they are either male or female, again not just about looking a certain way.

I also see a lot of people on here ranting about trans people and they literally only care about transwomen. Genuinely, what has happend to you that you feel so threatened at the thought of someone with a penis being the same gender as you?

Stop ranting about how men are going to use it as an excuse to perv on your kid in a changing room. I'd bet quite a lot that more women will perv on your kid in a changing room than men pretending to be trans will.

Gender is evolving all the time there are no definitive rules to being a man or a woman.

For every thing that you think being a woman is, there will be a woman who disagrees with you.
You say that being a woman means having a uterus - does that make people who've had theirs removed for medical reasons not women?

If being a woman means the ability to have babies then does that mean infertile women aren't women?

If you think being a man is the ability to grow facial hair does that mean that men who can't aren't men?

I read about a woman who had poly cystic ovaries and had a luxurious, thick beard and moustache as a result. Does that mean she is a man or less of a woman? Or should she have continued to try and shave and wax it off and be ashamed of it rather than accept herself the way she was and rock the beard?

Seriously, we've come a long way from being a woman meaning you're your husband's property and having to squirt out babies and clean your whole life. Why are you so determined to go backwards?

Stop using the teeny possibility of a man pretending to be trans to invade women's spaces as a vehicle for your hatred and open your mind enough to at least try and understand the issue, because it might be your kid. It might be your dad. It might be your bff 4eva. If that were the case would you ostracise them from your life and declare them a fraud, or have a little empathy and try and support them through something potentially life changing.

drops mic

OP posts:
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Seeingadistance · 10/02/2018 17:23

OP, probably best that you leave the mic lying there while you do some reading, listening and thinking.

SophoclesTheFox · 10/02/2018 17:23

You say that being a woman means having a uterus - does that make people who've had theirs removed for medical reasons not women?

Ah, my favourite piece of appropriative, patronising nonsense. I had a hysterectomy at 41. If that means I'm not a woman then why can't I pee standing up, and more importantly, where's my pay rise?

Op, the important fact is that the world, the patriarchy, doesn't give a shit (much like every trans ally who ever came on here to scold us using this trope) about my diseased uterus having been cut out of me. The world, the patriarchy is set up on treating people who are perceived to be of the sex that have uteruses in a certain way that they don't treat people who are of the sex who don't. The gender critical objection is about being forced to pretend that doesn't matter. It very much does matter.

Freshlylaidterf · 10/02/2018 17:23

He was actually a male in a female body
Actually, impossible.

windchimesabotage · 10/02/2018 17:23

Its also important to note that people who have been raised women will have had very experiences to people who have been raised men. Despite feeling you have always been a woman, if you have appeared to be a man you will have been treated a certain way. So if you were raised a women you will have faced issues due to that, that you need to be able to communicate in order to talk about oppression.
To equate the experiences of trans women exactly with the experiences of people born women is the same kind of thing as saying 'i dont see colour' or whatever... it prevents biological women discussing their own oppression.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 10/02/2018 17:24

I have another friend who is biologically a female but they don't have a gender.

I think this describes me.

I think this probably describes every feminist on these boards. And every person tbh. Does anyone 'identify; with every stereotype they are 'supposed to'?

I have no gender identity. I am therefor by todays labels a-gender or non-binary. Wow, I am trans too!

UnmitigatedBollocks · 10/02/2018 17:24

Oh bore off. Idiot.

Charismam · 10/02/2018 17:24

[popcorn]

McTufty · 10/02/2018 17:25

What @sophoclesthefox said

DarthVaper · 10/02/2018 17:25

Are you a man but any chance? You are come across a bit mansplainy.

StillTryingHard · 10/02/2018 17:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

stitchglitched · 10/02/2018 17:26

Hi OP I'm more concerned about the transwomen who are happy with their bodies and say their penises are female than those with gender dysphoria who transition. FYI, you are aware that your position that trans people are in the 'wrong body' is terribly transphobic under the current vocal trans ideology?

Trailedanderror · 10/02/2018 17:26

@cjferg
"Genuinely, what has happend to you that you feel so threatened at the thought of someone with a penis being the same gender as you?"
(You mean sex, btw)
Do you want to have a little think about that?

Can you really not think of some reasons why women don't want men in changing rooms, in Domestic Violence Refuges, playing contact sports with us?

Biscuit
Battleax · 10/02/2018 17:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Labradoodliedoodoo · 10/02/2018 17:26

Stop ranting about how men are going to use it as an excuse to perv on your kid in a changing room. I'd bet quite a lot that more women will perv on your kid in a changing room than men pretending to be trans will.

^^
This is hilarious. You just need to compare the percentage of men in prison with the percentage of women in prison. It’s mostly men that are violent and dangerous. Females are the most vulnerable sex

Fishfingersandwichnocheese · 10/02/2018 17:27

Incidentally does anyone remember that disorder where a person truest believes they should be disabled in some way ? Some poor woman was medically blindedor something ?

Ive always wondered if there’s any relation between this and the “born in the wrong body” feelings.

Sarahjconnor · 10/02/2018 17:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 10/02/2018 17:27

bff 4eva

Well, I can certainly see why we should take you seriously.

Patodp · 10/02/2018 17:27

Some people's sex does not match their sex.
Yep.
This is why feminists want to dismantle Sex Based Stereotypes. Gender is a collection of stereotypes which harm mainly women.

Transgender ideologists want sex based stereotyped rigidly upheld by claiming if your gender is masculine you must be a man. This is harmful and backwards.
We want everyone to be beautiful just the way they are and express exactly who they are without thinking they need to change sex (which is impossible and we all know this so why lie)...

I love gender non conforming people. I love people expressing their inner self. I simply object to the lie that people are being told, they may need to change sex to be comfortable with their masculine or feminine selves and this is the only route. I do not hate Transgender people. I wish them the best possible.

However believing a man can be a woman just by saying so is not only a harmful untruth but also a massive assault on women's protected spaces and womanhood itself.

But don't let nuanced argument get in the way of accusations of hatred and bigotry and all things evil.

NotTerfNorCis · 10/02/2018 17:27

I'd bet quite a lot that more women will perv on your kid in a changing room than men pretending to be trans will.

That's just weird. No, they won't. Child abuse is overwhelmingly committed by males.

But seriously I hope the OP feels confident enough to come back and answer some of the points on this thread.

ReluctantCamper · 10/02/2018 17:28

Come back OP please. Debate here can get heated but is generally respectful.

Some good points have been raised here that it would be great to hear your thoughts on. For example what are your views on taking biological sex into account for people who perform intimate examinations of rape victims?

Patodp · 10/02/2018 17:28

CRAP. *Some people's Gender does not match their sex!

ReluctantCamper · 10/02/2018 17:30

Having said debate is respectful I can see some pretty intimidating responses here. If we want to change people's minds we should be talking to them not shouting at them.

Fishfingersandwichnocheese · 10/02/2018 17:31

I don’t believe OP really wanted a discussion. They just want to be “right on”

Cherrycokewinning · 10/02/2018 17:31

I can’t stop laughing at drops mic

Although the whole post is hilarious

stitchglitched · 10/02/2018 17:31

And also- 98% of sexual violence is committed by male bodied individuals. I couldn't give a crap what 'gender' they feel their heart/brain whatever is. I don't want to share intimate spaces with them thanks.

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