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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can you all just lay off trans people

742 replies

cjferg · 10/02/2018 17:11

There is a difference between sex and gender. Some people's align, other people's don't. Some people are biologically female, and their gender doesn't match that and vies versa. Some people don't have a gender. Why do you care so much?

One of my best friends in school was biologically a female. When he 'came out' to me as trans and explained how he had never felt comfortable in his body all I thought (and anyone who knew him) was that I wasn't surprised and that it made a lot of sense and we all got on with our lives. This was about age 17 and he said he had known this since he was a kid (not saying that any kid who says they want to should be able to willy nilly block their hormones, etc, btw)
It wasn't just about 'presenting as a male'. He was actually a male in a female body.
Yes, when he started presenting as male he felt a lot better. I remember he didn't want to go to our prom because of all the dressing up, etc. until we suggested he wear a tux, and it was amazing to see him so comfortable.
But still he hated having tits and having to wear a binder (can be done safely if you get a proper binder and don't just use bandages or w/e so don't even start)
It wasn't enough to just stuff the front of the trousers.
I repeat, he was a man trapped in a woman's body. Not just a cross dressing woman, not just in an experimental phase.

I have another friend who is biologically a female but they don't have a gender. They are known as 'they' not 'he'or 'she' and knowing them you would in no way think that they are either male or female, again not just about looking a certain way.

I also see a lot of people on here ranting about trans people and they literally only care about transwomen. Genuinely, what has happend to you that you feel so threatened at the thought of someone with a penis being the same gender as you?

Stop ranting about how men are going to use it as an excuse to perv on your kid in a changing room. I'd bet quite a lot that more women will perv on your kid in a changing room than men pretending to be trans will.

Gender is evolving all the time there are no definitive rules to being a man or a woman.

For every thing that you think being a woman is, there will be a woman who disagrees with you.
You say that being a woman means having a uterus - does that make people who've had theirs removed for medical reasons not women?

If being a woman means the ability to have babies then does that mean infertile women aren't women?

If you think being a man is the ability to grow facial hair does that mean that men who can't aren't men?

I read about a woman who had poly cystic ovaries and had a luxurious, thick beard and moustache as a result. Does that mean she is a man or less of a woman? Or should she have continued to try and shave and wax it off and be ashamed of it rather than accept herself the way she was and rock the beard?

Seriously, we've come a long way from being a woman meaning you're your husband's property and having to squirt out babies and clean your whole life. Why are you so determined to go backwards?

Stop using the teeny possibility of a man pretending to be trans to invade women's spaces as a vehicle for your hatred and open your mind enough to at least try and understand the issue, because it might be your kid. It might be your dad. It might be your bff 4eva. If that were the case would you ostracise them from your life and declare them a fraud, or have a little empathy and try and support them through something potentially life changing.

drops mic

OP posts:
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exLtEveDallas · 10/02/2018 17:33

Ok, so everyone knows this is bollocks, yes? You're only commenting for shits n giggles?

Patodp · 10/02/2018 17:35

Is this the same person who's friend couldn't stop crying reading Mumsnet.com?

GreenSeededGrape · 10/02/2018 17:35

Another one of these threads Hmm

tiktok · 10/02/2018 17:35

cjferg I hope you come back.

Please engage with the debate.

You don't have to respond to everyone.

But please acknowledge those of us who have suggested your arguments are not based on a good understanding of the issue, and actually, in my view, show you have not considered acquiring a coherent outlook....you have mixed up sex and gender all the way through your opening post, you use tired arguments that make no sense, and the science and evidence that should inform these arguments is totally missing.

Don't just post and run. It is pathetic.

RatRolyPoly · 10/02/2018 17:36

I do support trans rights and I have a trans friend and to me she is a woman even though she has a penis.

windchime can I ask then how you feel about the prevalent trope here that "transwomen are men"? I completely agree with everyone that the review of the GRA had the potential to disadvantage women and infringe upon their hard-won rights; I want to talk about that and I want to campaign to protect those rights in the context of human rights for all. But it seems to me that unless you're prepared to say trans is "impossible" (to quote a pp) then that is not enough?

OvaHere · 10/02/2018 17:36

I doubt the OP is coming back, they rarely do.

Why debate when you can waffle a load of bad science and appropriate the health difficulties of some women to try and justify why penis in women's spaces isn't a problem?

It's laughable that the OP thinks that post was a drops mic moment, drops acid would better explain the lack of coherence.

GnotherGnu · 10/02/2018 17:37

I simply don't want my rights, or feelings as a woman to be completely disregarded by people who have not lived as a woman for as long as me

Bizarre justification, Rowena. Surely no-one wants their rights taken away by anyone? You seem to be suggesting that it's OK to lose your rights so long as the person responsible has lived as a woman longer than you have.

Andrewofgg · 10/02/2018 17:37

Stop ranting about how men are going to use it as an excuse to perv on your kid in a changing room. I'd bet quite a lot that more women will perv on your kid in a changing room than men pretending to be trans will.

Are you for real?

TopBitchoftheWitches · 10/02/2018 17:38

When trans people stop calling me a 'cis' woman I might listen more.

I am a woman. That's it. Always have been and always will be.

Also, the trans community need to stop trying to encroach into women's sport, spaces etc.

Fight for your own, just as we did.

AnnieAnoniMouse · 10/02/2018 17:38

drops mic

Wow, you’re certainly not suffering from a lack of self confidence are you?

Even if it’s well misplaced.

NotReadyToMove · 10/02/2018 17:39

Seriously, we've come a long way from being a woman meaning you're your husband's property and having to squirt out babies and clean your whole life. Why are you so determined to go backwards?

Actually the whole idea behind the trans movement and especially trans woman sinthat these people feel like a woman because they like/enjoy women th8ngs. These things are VERY gender specific and yes it’s about being pretty, wearing a dress and make up. As if this was what was making a woman.
This means that instead if actually seeing the idea of what makes a woman (as a gender) evolving in a positive way, I actually see that idea going backwards very quickly into the ‘be Pretty, love to cook and clean’ type of idea that I hoped we had moved from.

As I dint want to go back to the 1960s, I am wholly against any system that reduces women to that.

If a man wants to become a (trans) woman of the 21st century, they will get more acceptance from me.

Frequency · 10/02/2018 17:40

can I ask then how you feel about the prevalent trope here that "transwomen are men"?

I don't like that. Although it's biologically correct, there's no harm in respecting their wish to be named as women 90% of the time and transwoman in situations where determining biological sex is important.

I think insisting on calling them men/he etc weakens the argument and is unnecessarily aggressive but I haven't seen too much of it on here, tbh.

OnionKnight · 10/02/2018 17:40

I do support trans rights and I have a trans friend and to me she is a woman even though she has a penis.

Nope.

Your friend is a man.

AnyFucker · 10/02/2018 17:41

Well done. You get the prize for the least researched op in the history of feminism chat.

RatRolyPoly · 10/02/2018 17:42

frequency - see the very next post.

If you went through any single one of these threads with a red pen and circled all the "transwomen are men" posts or paraphrases thereof, you'd have an AWFUL LOT of red pen.

hipsterfun · 10/02/2018 17:43

Gender is evolving all the time there are no definitive rules to being a man or a woman.

Ok, start there and think really, really hard about what it means.

SuckingEggs · 10/02/2018 17:44

Fuck off with your cis. I’m a woman. Fucking well deal with it.

Mummyoflittledragon · 10/02/2018 17:45

Read this. Educate yourself. This is the sort of person most people object to, not a person with body dysphoria. But hey, I should be right on, move over and let my womanhood and sex denied me. Afterall, there’s plenty of space here for all of us. Hmm.

Can you all just lay off trans people
G5000 · 10/02/2018 17:46

Genuinely, what has happend to you that you feel so threatened at the thought of someone with a penis

Fixed that for you. Shall we start a list of things men (i.e someone with penis) have done to us?

rb67 · 10/02/2018 17:46

"Stop using the teeny possibility of a man pretending to be trans to invade women's spaces" - the possibility that a man will sexually assault women and children is not enough for you?

stitchglitched · 10/02/2018 17:46

Transwomen are men though. Biology matters when discussing how trans ideology is impacting upon women. I will (mostly) use preferred pronouns to individuals to be polite but I'm not going to deny reality.

Lovesagin · 10/02/2018 17:47

I always thought 'drops mic' was used when the person has said something totally argument-proof or have I misunderstood?

'drops mic' in this case is like when people do the "L for loser's the wrong way round 😂

AlpacaLypse · 10/02/2018 17:48

I'm not anti trans. However I am extremely anti vociferous transactivists who are refusing to let me even discuss their frankly insane agenda without screaming bigot.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 10/02/2018 17:50

I hate ploppers and i hate plopping OPs most of all

Doesnt bother reading any threads and just bullshit, bullshit, bullshit...

busyboysmum · 10/02/2018 17:50

Does "drops mic" actually mean "runs away as cannot engage in any meaningful debate"?

I'll ask one more time just so it penetrates.....