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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can you all just lay off trans people

742 replies

cjferg · 10/02/2018 17:11

There is a difference between sex and gender. Some people's align, other people's don't. Some people are biologically female, and their gender doesn't match that and vies versa. Some people don't have a gender. Why do you care so much?

One of my best friends in school was biologically a female. When he 'came out' to me as trans and explained how he had never felt comfortable in his body all I thought (and anyone who knew him) was that I wasn't surprised and that it made a lot of sense and we all got on with our lives. This was about age 17 and he said he had known this since he was a kid (not saying that any kid who says they want to should be able to willy nilly block their hormones, etc, btw)
It wasn't just about 'presenting as a male'. He was actually a male in a female body.
Yes, when he started presenting as male he felt a lot better. I remember he didn't want to go to our prom because of all the dressing up, etc. until we suggested he wear a tux, and it was amazing to see him so comfortable.
But still he hated having tits and having to wear a binder (can be done safely if you get a proper binder and don't just use bandages or w/e so don't even start)
It wasn't enough to just stuff the front of the trousers.
I repeat, he was a man trapped in a woman's body. Not just a cross dressing woman, not just in an experimental phase.

I have another friend who is biologically a female but they don't have a gender. They are known as 'they' not 'he'or 'she' and knowing them you would in no way think that they are either male or female, again not just about looking a certain way.

I also see a lot of people on here ranting about trans people and they literally only care about transwomen. Genuinely, what has happend to you that you feel so threatened at the thought of someone with a penis being the same gender as you?

Stop ranting about how men are going to use it as an excuse to perv on your kid in a changing room. I'd bet quite a lot that more women will perv on your kid in a changing room than men pretending to be trans will.

Gender is evolving all the time there are no definitive rules to being a man or a woman.

For every thing that you think being a woman is, there will be a woman who disagrees with you.
You say that being a woman means having a uterus - does that make people who've had theirs removed for medical reasons not women?

If being a woman means the ability to have babies then does that mean infertile women aren't women?

If you think being a man is the ability to grow facial hair does that mean that men who can't aren't men?

I read about a woman who had poly cystic ovaries and had a luxurious, thick beard and moustache as a result. Does that mean she is a man or less of a woman? Or should she have continued to try and shave and wax it off and be ashamed of it rather than accept herself the way she was and rock the beard?

Seriously, we've come a long way from being a woman meaning you're your husband's property and having to squirt out babies and clean your whole life. Why are you so determined to go backwards?

Stop using the teeny possibility of a man pretending to be trans to invade women's spaces as a vehicle for your hatred and open your mind enough to at least try and understand the issue, because it might be your kid. It might be your dad. It might be your bff 4eva. If that were the case would you ostracise them from your life and declare them a fraud, or have a little empathy and try and support them through something potentially life changing.

drops mic

OP posts:
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Cocolepew · 10/02/2018 17:52

Squirt out babies? 😂
I'm cringing at you mic drop btw.

sonlypuppyfat · 10/02/2018 17:52

How can one person be called a they?

Cocolepew · 10/02/2018 17:53

your

SusanBunch · 10/02/2018 17:53

and knowing them you would in no way think that they are either male or female

Really? Did you mean to say this? Seeing as every person is either male or female, I can't see how anyone would 'in no way' think someone was male or female. What else would they be?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 10/02/2018 17:54

And its rude

Really rude

Just making up a load of shit...

Schlimbesserung · 10/02/2018 17:54

I have yet to see a trans person come here and say that they feel discriminated against on MN.

SophoclesTheFox · 10/02/2018 17:54

Mic drop followed by "Whoops! Butterfingers! Didn't mean to do that. Now, where was I?"

Bluntness100 · 10/02/2018 17:54

Op, this was a pointless thread on this forum, as you've seen uou will get roundly abused by the usual suspects.

Most of whom will never even have seen a transgender person in a female only space, but will happily rant abusively on an online forum.

Hide the thread, there is no reasonable discussion to be had here.

LadyMcLadyCrisps · 10/02/2018 17:55

Fuck your non binary popcorn PP’s I brought my ladydoritos...

Grin
ReluctantCamper · 10/02/2018 17:55

I try to be respectful and in person would probably go along with calling a trans woman a woman. I would certainly use their chosen name. However I think we have to be able to say a trans woman is a man without worrying about offending. It's simply a statement of fact.

KayaG · 10/02/2018 17:55

OP isn't awfully bright is he/she?

Drops hint.

UnsuspectedItem · 10/02/2018 17:57

You lost any credibility with the "drops mic" thing. Have my very first Biscuit

RatRolyPoly · 10/02/2018 17:57

Transwomen are men though.

Well they're biologically and genetically male aren't they, I think we can all agree on that. Obviously there will be some hard-of-thinking souls on Twitter running their mouths off, but that's the "beauty" of the internet.

I'm not anti trans. However I am extremely anti vociferous transactivists who are refusing to let me even discuss their frankly insane agenda without screaming bigot.

It's political correctness gone mad; I mean it really is! We've seen what happens when pc-ness shuts down reasons debate (immigration, anyone?) and often it propels people the other way. Sometimes too far the other way! But I'm musing; that's by the by.

Geronimoleapinglizards · 10/02/2018 17:58

I repeat, he was a man trapped in a woman's body. Not just a cross dressing woman, not just in an experimental phase

Op there are lots of lovely women here who will genuinely talk this over with you if you want to stick around. i think you're female and I think you're trying to do the right thing by your friend. I used to think like you and so did lots of other people here.

The statement I've bolded, can you explain that any further? Because to me, sex is biological fact and there is no soul so there can be no innate gender feeling that doesn't align with your genitals, say. So you are what you are. However we have all these things that we have become quite rigid about viewing as male or female (like men wearing tuxedos and women wearing dresses) but really they aren't anything and lots of us would love a world where people could do whatever they wanted (so long as they aren't harming others)

It's not an issue of being mean or wanting your friend to be unhappy. It's about saying that gender is made up rubbish but sex is biological fact and at the end of the day, can't be changed. If you think it can be changed, it's for you to come and present some evidence which says that. (Intersex doesn't count. Being intersex is extremely rare and it's a medical condition)

The way in which you envision gender requires belief. It's little more than a dodgy religion. It's not real.

LanaKanesTerfyVagina · 10/02/2018 17:58

Oh look, another "plop n run" post Hmm

If you are all so convinced of your fucking righteousness, why don't you ever stay and debate, you know, like a grown up?

Just run on yell "Transphobic bitches" and fuck off without answering any of the perfectly reasonable questions put to you.

No one here hates trans people.

If you'd read any of the many, many threads on here you will see lots of transwomen and men commentating.

I don't want to remove their rights, I want them to not remove mine.

Also if you can't wrap your head around the reasons why women might not want penises in their safe spaces, you are very very fucking stupid.

Men commit 98% of violent crime.

2 women a week are killed by a current or former (penised) partner.

Ask yourself why a woman who has been raped, assaulted and beaten by men with penises, might not want a penis in their refuge, changing room or toilet.

Just fucking dwell on that for a minute.

And in light of the above statistics HOW FUCKING DARE YOU OUTRIGHT LIE THAT "a woman is more likely to perve on kids"

How fucking insulting to expect people to swallow that little gem.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 10/02/2018 17:58

bluntness

Anyone who ends their post with 'drops mic" has no interest in discussing

Reallycantbebothered · 10/02/2018 17:58

I have no uterus or ovaries but definitely see myself as a woman

whoputthecatout · 10/02/2018 18:00

There is a difference between sex and gender

Indeed OP. The problem is that you don't seem to understand what it is.

Alisvolatpropiis · 10/02/2018 18:00

Cool story 👍🏻

NotReadyToMove · 10/02/2018 18:00

mummyoflittledragons
That’s awful truly awful tbh....

Anlaf · 10/02/2018 18:00

Bluntness if you see abuse, report the post. I see precious little on the FWR boards, certainly not by the regular posters.

If by abuse, you mean disagreement, then aye there might be some of that.

LanaKanesTerfyVagina · 10/02/2018 18:01

Oh and I only wear mens clothes, never heels or dresses and I have PCOS which gives me quite a neat little moustache!

Don't you dare use women like me in your pile of steaming propaganda.

I am a fucking woman.

LangCleg · 10/02/2018 18:02

Anyone who ends their post with 'drops mic" has no interest in discussing

Yes, but on the upside I genuinely burst out laughing!

Does OP not realise that when you hope you have dropped your mic you're not supposed to big yourself up by saying so? You're supposed to wait for someone else to congratulate you by saying that you dropped it.

I'm ancient and even I know that.

Half-literate plopper the OP might well be, but I love them for mic drop.

Terftastic · 10/02/2018 18:02

OP is a goady fucker. Just wants to put uppity women back in their box, for fighting for their rights in law, that are due to our biological sex.

Gender is meaningless. Feminists have fought against rigid gender lines for decades, and they're not going to stop now.

Geronimoleapinglizards · 10/02/2018 18:04

Most of whom will never even have seen a transgender person in a female only space, but will happily rant abusively on an online forum.

Except that some people here are trans, or have a relative who is trans, or is part of the LGB community so has mixed with trans people.

I've met two very nice transwomen. That's not much but I'd have been happy sharing a women's bathroom with them. Instinctively I didn't efel threatened by them. You're forgetting that there's been an honour system for years whereby transwomen have been using female restrooms.

The problem is that transwomen are demanding entry. They're saying that it's bigoted to say anything other than transwomen are women. So suddenly women are facing having no choice. This despite all sorts of evidence suggesting that this puts women at risk from predatory men.

It's been explained over and over and over and over on this board. I can't honestly see how anyone can fail to understand this point. Perhaps it's like taking an exam where you need to read the question twice, so you don't go off on one about any old subject. It's quite frustrating having to waste one's time explaining something that other women have spelled out 50 thousand other times.

Drops mic. Trips over it.