Boss told me to choose between being a mother and being a director

[Coffeekitten]

I’m a senior employee/director at a small company and have worked there for many years. I am part time and am able to do all of my work, and more in those hours then collect my children from school.

The other directors are all male at the company, are paid a full time wage and have flexibility around things like collecting their children from school, so I don’t feel that flexibility for directors is inherently considered a problem. However, I am the one who has been challenged over needing flexibility around my children.

My boss put on a random Teams meeting and started shouting at me that he wants me full time and said outright “Do you want to be a director or a mother?” and suggested that I should go and find another job if I am unwilling to return to a full time working pattern.

I have a recording of the entire conversation, and importantly, I told him during the conversation that I was recording it.

There have also been other comments/incidents over the years which, taken together, have made me increasingly uncomfortable about how I’ve been treated as a woman and a mother.
I was extremely upset afterwards and am now questioning whether I can realistically continue working there, despite having previously had a good working relationship with my boss.

I’m not looking for legal advice as I already have professional advice.

Has anyone else experienced this kind of treatment? What happened in your situation?

I am sorry you are being treated poorly, but also happy that he so thoroughly screwed himself.

https://danielbarnett.com/

Employment Law barrister, if you need more legal advice.

Are you legally registered as a director at Co House? I know some SMEs like to throw the job title around without the official appointment. Do you also hold any shares? Both give greater leverage in a settlement.

Depending upon whether you are ICAEW, CIMA or ACCA, there is likely to be support available through your membership. For example, ICAEW has CABA which can offer advice to members, along with the ethics helpline. They charge us such ridiculous membership fees each year that you may as well get something back!

@Coffeekitten what is your sick policy?
if it’s is more than statutory I’d go off sick with stress and use the time to find a new role and let your shit hot lawyer negotiated a severance.

if you only get statutory… work to rule. No going over your contracted hours. If you can’t finish your work in that time you simply say ‘can’t be done in the time you pay me for’

its not tenable to stay there so might as well work it to your advantage.

Im title only and no shareholding so sadly less leverage.

oooh thank you ill check that out. I’m CIMA x

Thank you 🤩

Thanks so much!

Thank you. It’s 10 days full pay. Thankfully I already had the rest of this week booked off so will face the music on Monday and go from there! X

Just to add OP, our home insurance paid for me lawyers!

Arghh thank you I did not think to look at this! X

Would be interesting to see what your boss's reaction / response would be if you said 'ok, I'll go full time then with flexibility'

@Coffeekitten sorry you had a bad experience years ago. I volunteer with them and some branches are better than others but we have specialist employment advisors who are excellent. We also have drop in solicitors, who give free advice so I would suggest it's definitely worth going back and making an appointment if you can.

We do see this thing a lot, and it's more common than you may think.

Your boss has been very stupid and you have real grounds to take this further, especially with that kind of evidence.

Personally, I hope you take him to the cleaners...!

Could he go part time?

Well he sounds awful.

In fairness obviously I don’t know the details of your company but I sat on the executive committee of a larger company and that wasn’t a part time role, none of us worked part time or ever had done that I’m
aware of. You need to be reliably around to hold those roles usually and the fact is simply that there are enough people working full time and demonstrating their commitment.

I think it’s fairly clear you won’t be progressing while keeping your part time role while he’s the decision maker so perhaps it’s a case of deciding whether you want to stay part time, go full time and have a shot at exec level, or find another job.

The recording will be useful in negotiating a settlement, as I imagine the lawyer told you…

UK home insurance pays for employment dispute lawyers?

(Bewildered Irish employee)

My lawyers ... wtf!

Worth considering, they can however force you to settle if they feel the case goes to 50/50 they will only back you to win. It did take some of the fear of the costs.

You need to speak to an employment solicitor and read your companies documentation around filing complaints and grievances. You will need to deal with it formally and by the book in case you want to take it to a tribunal.

He makes a great point.

This happened to me, but in a FTSE 100 company. I was told I needed to ‘show some commitment’ and work full time or they’d make me redundant (despite my flawless performance record). Then they tried to kick off a redundancy process. So I contacted a solicitor and she negotiated a very good settlement agreement. As a part-time employee you gave a right to the same treatment as a full-time employee - you can’t be discriminated against because of your part-time status. And by the sound of it he’s admitted to discriminating against you!

Hang the bastard out to dry. Good luck, OP, and please do update us.

He doesn't need to use the word "mother" he can use the word "parent,' like him.

Hi OP, I have been in a VERY similar position. A few pieces of advice having been through the entire process:

• Please do not quit and go for constructive dismissal, it is VERY hard to prove even with the sort of evidence you have. It relies on you proving you HAD to quit. Please, please stay in post while you evaluate your options. Those saying resign and go for it mean well but it is not good advice.

• You have what sounds like a very strong case for sex based discrimination, with male comparators in other directors which is very strong. There are very tight timelines for bringing this to court, you would need to bring your case within 3 months of the alleged incident which feels like a long time but isn’t really. This is because at the same time, the courts like to see you have been proactive at trying to resolve things. So if you want to go down this route, your first step regardless of anything needs to be bringing a formal grievance internally, and businesses are adept at kicking this can down the road with various excuses until you’re out of time. It was only my constant haranguing, which ironically gave me MORE evidence to use in court, that made mine happen on time.

• Dont be surprised (as I somehow still naively was) if you bring the grievance, the investigate and say ‘nope nothing to see here’ - it’s a tactic to make you shut up and go away.

• Having a solicitor on standby to negotiate leaving is excellent news - the truth is that the courts have limits on what they will award and taking them to court might not eventually be as lucrative as negotiating a settlement to go quietly. It’s often more beneficial for all parties (going to court does however mean you’ll avoid an NDA and can tell everyone they’re scumbags if that really matters to you!)

• My company (also a small independent business, but with big global clients) were particularly difficult and did the opposite of negotiating, completely shutting down on me, despite me having worked for them for years. I ended up staying there another 6 months while the case creaked on, I had a solicitor who was invaluable but I was dealing with absolutely horrendous attitudes every day, ignoring me completely, suddenly having performance reviews put in all over the shop them and them deliberately piling the work on as an attempt I was directly told was to ‘stress me out of the business’. I fought this out of pride while still delivering to the highest standard for clients who never guessed what was going on. I ended up quite seriously physically unwell, I still can’t believe the capacity some people have for cruelty to a new mother but arseholes will be arseholes!

• my company eventually only came to the table after we got all the way to a preliminary hearing where a judge found in my favour and confirmed they would hear the whole case. It was a completely pointless waste of time for everyone as, much like you, I had strong evidence. But don’t underestimate how much a business may be willing to act like it doesn’t exist or that they’re unbothered by it, in the hope you’ll get tired and go away.

• I don’t say any of this to scare you - i am bloody glad I stuck to my guns and I don’t regret it. But the process IS arduous, even if you’re what could generally be considered a tough cookie!

• you have a solicitor so they will know the drill already, but calling both Pregnant then Screwed and ACAS is a good idea, just so someone can explain the entire process, timelines etc to you (without you needing to pay £££ an hour). The process will go through ACAS anyway so calling them is a very good idea as there is all kinds of paperwork involved. My ACAS rep turned out to be lovely and so helpful, even while the solicitors were doing the hard negotiating he really worked to make it all happen on time and I got out with my money, my pride and a big FU to them on behalf of all working mothers.

• edited to add: Like a PP, I got my solicitor via my house insurance. That is also a lot of paperwork and took about 6 weeks for me to submit a claim with all my evidence that got evaluated first by the insurance company, then by an independent solicitor to assess my chances (had to be over 50% chance of winning for them to take it on), before it was finally sent to another solicitor to also evaluate and take me on. It all just eats up the time. Often you don’t get to choose, some insurance policies will let you nominate someone. Initially at the final stage my claim was evaluated by a graduate paralegal who dismissed it - I kicked up a massive fuss and asked for it to be reviewed by a qualified solicitor, who then did and he took me on. He was a partner in the firm and was excellent, I was so grateful for his help. But EVERY BLOODY STEP of the process requires you to be absolutely on it. No one cares about your case like you have to!

Feel free to PM me about any of this, details on limits etc. Best of luck and go get ‘em!

I think that's up to the court/judge actually if they will accept the recording. Covert (not that this was) recordings are used all the time in cases. Both the press and the police have used them for example.

And no, you don't have to ask for consent to be recorded. It's not illegal, it just can't be published as a general rule - except by the court I presume.

I had a similar issue although I was not a.senior staff member. After I threatened to take it to an employment solicitor I was made redundant and despite having been there a little over 2 years inwas given 8 weeks garden leave, redundancy pay equivalent to a further 8 weeks pay and a glowing reference.

You currently have the power in this situation. Use it to.your advantage.

My advice would be keep.your powder dry, build your case quietly whilst applying for other roles.

Perhaps he can make you an offer to go?

although p/t roles are tricky to come by

make sure you get a good package