Boss told me to choose between being a mother and being a director

[Coffeekitten]

I’m a senior employee/director at a small company and have worked there for many years. I am part time and am able to do all of my work, and more in those hours then collect my children from school.

The other directors are all male at the company, are paid a full time wage and have flexibility around things like collecting their children from school, so I don’t feel that flexibility for directors is inherently considered a problem. However, I am the one who has been challenged over needing flexibility around my children.

My boss put on a random Teams meeting and started shouting at me that he wants me full time and said outright “Do you want to be a director or a mother?” and suggested that I should go and find another job if I am unwilling to return to a full time working pattern.

I have a recording of the entire conversation, and importantly, I told him during the conversation that I was recording it.

There have also been other comments/incidents over the years which, taken together, have made me increasingly uncomfortable about how I’ve been treated as a woman and a mother.
I was extremely upset afterwards and am now questioning whether I can realistically continue working there, despite having previously had a good working relationship with my boss.

I’m not looking for legal advice as I already have professional advice.

Has anyone else experienced this kind of treatment? What happened in your situation?

Had a similar situation about 8 years ago, where a smallish family run business were after getting rid of the Head of HR. They pulled stunts like this, but they picked on the wrong person. She got a solicitor involved and she walked away with 6 months notice (gardening leave) on full pay and benefits, then got 12 months salary on top. She had to sign an NDA, but that’s quite common.

Good luck and I hope your savage solicitor gets you a fantastic deal and they teach your boss a bloody good lesson.

And even though they know the laws, they'll ask you all those banned questions in an interview and try out banned ideas in a meeting just to see if they can - even the female CEOs who definitely know better.
I've been asked about childcare, commute times and whether I'd consider going part time. (They don't ask the men those questions, do they ...)

Thank you!
My husband does drop off and I do pickup. We then split school holidays with annual leave etc. He also works for a tyrant who kicks off about kids being poorly etc, but clearly not as bad as mine 😅

I think I’d drop into his office and say ‘further to that teams call, is it that you want me full time or you don’t want me at all? I’d like to clarify what the issue is so I can address it.’

Considering legal costs you might want to avoid, would you consider saying ‘I reckon it will take me nine months to secure a role of equivalent seniority remuneration, so if you would like to pay me nine months salary, we can start a conversation about my exit.’

Twice things like this has happened...

First was when I told my boss/company owner I was pregnant, he gave me a filthy look, said I knew I shouldn't of hired a woman and walked off.
Didn't have any proof and he was a complete arsehole, I knew I couldn't make anything of it so took them for everything I could as in sick days, kicked in maternity early, waited last minite to tell them I wasn't returning and that they owed me a year of holiday pay.

Second was offered a promotion from HR Administrator to HR Advisor but under the condition I returned full time (worked 35hours per week already).
I refused and said if you want me you've got me but it will be for 35hpw. Still got the promotion but ended leaving not long after due to constant pressure to do overtime etc.

Work for myself now and happy as Larry, fuck employers.

You have the legal side handled and I'm glad you're looking round for another job so this is just musings about what's really going on in his head -

From the snippets you mentioned sounds like it's more to do with being part time than having a family. You're obviously still going to be a mother if you were full time with them, so his focus on it seems to be more to do with how he sees you prioritising family over work rather than fitting them into a full time work life as, presumably, your full time colleagues do. I'm not suggesting he's right to do this - I have no idea if your colleagues are more effective for being full time and just using flexibility for their family commitments - but I do think companies often have a hard time with part time workers, even those who are quite high up and it's seen as not being as committed and taking more overhead for hours worked than full time employees.

You say you think he's got a family member in mind for your role and that's probably the biggest reason he's kicking off but the part time bit might be why he's focused on you and not one of the others. (Might also just be that your female and your face doesn't fit so well or he's bringing in a female family member so she can be the "diversity" at director level and he doesn't need you there anymore).

Thanks so much. I’m an Accountant but HR, contracts etc seems to sit with me so I’ve had to learn bits over the years and was able to call him out on a lot of his BS with what I know 😅

Thanks so much - my solicitor seems confident something similar is achievable… xx

It’s horrendous isn’t it! I had an interview a couple of years ago and I was asked repeatedly if I planned to have anymore children! Would they ask a man this?!

Personally I’d call his bluff and say great let’s sort this full time role, I’ve decided to be a director not a mother.

Hahaha I love this. Funnily enough he’s gone into hiding and is ‘WFH’ since this happened so no chance of popping in on him this week at least 😂

I found acas very helpful myself, i went through an early conciliation process but I didnt go right through to tribunal (because i got what i wanted while staying in my job, plus i have it to wield in case of future problems (mine was breach of a statutory right and harassment for whistleblowing ).

I would encourage you to ring them because you can bring a case of discrimination without having to resign or leave your job. You can bring a grievance, ask them to get involved in early conciliation and then you choose to take it on to tribunal, all whilst still in employment. This is important as you said its hard to find a part time role.

Thank god you recorded the imbecile. And none of the other males spoke up for you? Says it all.

I’m so sorry to hear this - the first one in particular is disgusting but not the first time I’ve heard this!

Thanks for sharing and I’m so glad things have worked out for you. Depending on payout I’m debating setting up something or doing professional interim work so I can set my own schedule xx

PLEASE let us know how you get on. I am dying to know what boss/owner says when he realises he’s made the biggest fuck up of all time 😂

This is discrimination. I would go to your local CAB office and get proper advice. Bring along the recording and anything else you have. You need to know your rights and don't have to put up with this BS.

Is this even legal?

And some poor saps who know no better say we have achieved equality now!
Good luck with getting a good deal from this horrible situation OP. 🍀

You are absalutely on the right track OP, and I say good on you, and lets hope his ignorant stupidity comes right back to haunt him, sooner than later.

I’d tend to agree with most of that, but I’ve been part time for 4 years so it’s odd it’s randomly now an issue with no prior warning. He has been having angry outbursts at other staff for no reason but not quite as bad as this.

I am the first female in my role, am paid about £30K (full time equivalent) less than male predecessors who were less affective and he’s had to sack for poor quality work. Always been very happy with my work.

Thank you! Did you just carry on working as normal whilst this was ongoing? Was it awkward etc?

None of them said anything in the meeting but later all said it was out of order. I think they were a bit confused/ scared but yes not nice that nobody had spoken up for me :( x

As to why now - the family member he wants to put in role? Or could the business be in trouble? Or some other aspect of his life falling to pieces? And he's letting all the things he thinks but doesn't say out when he's taking his anger and fear out on staff...

Hahahaha I absolutely will 👏
I know he’s taken legal advice about a settlement angreement and from what I can gather is trying to deescalate the situation, suspect he’s been told he’s made a monumental f* up.

Thank you! I thought about CAB but I had a bad experience years ago but defos worth a try thank you! X

Thanks so much ❤️

Thank you 🙏 xx

I think he’s under pressure as he’s been steadily getting more unhinged for months. Not sure how I ended up in his crosshairs but 3 people have resigned in the past week as a result of things like this 😬