Called to HR for behaviour at an after-work event. Thoughts, please...

[DrLoveHandles]

Name changed because this is potentially outing.

I was at an after-work reception last week. There was mingling. I mingled into a group of four colleagues. All were holding wine. I was holding orange juice.

One of the colleagues - different department, never met him before - asked "Why aren't you drinking?"
I kind of waved my hand, said "Oh, you know, reasons" and laughed. I believe this made it clear I didn't want to discuss the matter without making things awkward.
The guy then said "Intriguing, like what reasons?"

I saw red. I basically listed all the reasons why someone mightn't be drinking alcohol and told him it was inappropriate to ask. I didn't shout or swear and I wasn't overtly aggressive. But my tone was patronising and I took a very forthright kind of stance (unblinking eye contact, standing at full height, no smiles etc.). I didn't give him time to reply, I excused myself from the group and went home shortly afterwards.

Today I got an email from my line manager asking me for a meeting with her and HR people to discuss what went on. Apparently, its a matter of unprofessional behaviour.

I'm not in a union.

I've never had any dealings with HR before. I'd be really grateful to hear anyone's thoughts on this situation. I mean anything - what might happen? What I should do to prepare etc?

And despite seeing red she didn’t raise her voice, she calmly asserted herself and gave him all of the reasons that made his questioning of her inappropriate. So now he knows.

More or less caught up with the thread now. Thank you for this, I appreciate it.

It was very frustrating last night being told I was wrong by people who don't seem to have a full understanding of the complexities of discrimination and employment law.

It would be unfair for people to get the impression that, as was being inferred or even blatantly stated, that someone have a claim of discrimination because they have a protected characteristic even if they haven't disclosed that PC. As you say, with hidden disabilities it is very very hard to successfully bring a claim if you haven't disclosed it, and even with disclosure it can be hard. It's not an easy process!

I would tread very carefully and very slowly..

Ask HR to provide the facts, ask questions about these facts.. and only agree to respond to questions if you really have to..

HR: We are here to ask you about the events of X evening..

You: OK..

HR: Mr B has alleged that he was bullied and ostracised by you
You: Can you explain what is meant by that?
HR: Can you describe your interaction with him

only if you have to..

You: Mr B asked me why I was not drinking, I did not wish to explain, I responded evasively and politely, he insisted with his questioning so I explained to him, clearly, that there could be many reasons why a person would not be drinking and might not wish to share those reasons with unknown colleagues in a professional setting. I felt uncomfortable being questioned in this manner but rather than showing my discomfort, I proceeded, as I have been trained to do, to clearly state my position. After this uncomfortable interaction, I moved to another group, and actually left the gathering shortly afterwards.

This questioning and insistence that I respond, left me feeling ill at ease and in a position where I could not easily decline to answer and move the conversation along to another more general topic. It felt intrusive to me.

Keep the answers to facts and how it made you feel.. avoid all use of 'squared up', stood my ground, saw red, told him it was inappropriate, patronising tone, forthright stance, unblinking eye contact, standing at full height, no smiles etc. also avoid things that you did not do.. shout, swear, overtly aggressive.. (as in for toddlers - when they hear don't touch the knife - they hear - touch the knife.. or if someone asks you if you are scared - your mind thinks there is something to be scared of so you using the words 'shout, swear, aggressive', will as others on here have done, bring a question into the interviewers mind that maybe you had been shouting, swearing and behaving aggressively.

No matter how many times you are asked - repeat - I was calm, as I am being now, I explained clearly, as I am doing now, I left because it had become uncomfortable - again - the use of comfort - links comfort with you...

Good luck - practice this with someone before your meeting and keep a calm tune in your head....

If you are asked about potential outcomes - you could mention that you are concerned that this will appear to have been something that you have done wrong and you wish that it be made very clear that you are being interviewed as a witness and not as a party to the complaint. If they suggest that the colleague has complained .. remind them you had nothing to do with the circumstances around the complaint, in fact, you have done absolutely noting wrong. You felt uncomfortable and left, you are irrelevant to any subsequent event when you were not present nor any subsequent behaviours of anyone else at that gathering. Avoid mentioning his name, this person, this man.. distance yourself entirely from the original event - you were not there..

Ah - looks like some of us were right then, when we said that someone else had complained about his behaviour. He sounds like an insufferable twat.

Maybe something to also think about is - if he had been drinking, how clear is his judgement to be getting into conversations and then reporting to HR?

Your work should probably stop plying people with alcohol.

"how much had he had to drink?" is a question HR might not want anyone to ask.

As soon as it became clear the OP worked in HE, all became clear.

Hilarious to see confused repliers saying that none of this makes sense.

Universities have complicated systems for complaining precisely because internal norms are so weak. They're very loose organisations, and lecturers/academics don't have strong professional norms in the same way that, say, doctors and lawyers do.

There's just a lot of bad behaviour - not necessarily all directed by seniors upon juniors. A disgruntled postgrad can cause mayhem.

I miss it a lot but I don't miss the loss of time taken up with resolving conflicts erupting out of nowhere.

This isn't an option. They are not legally entitled to ask that.

Employees are obligated to inform the employer 15 weeks before their due date.

I’m really sorry you’re having this experience

But I just wanted to say… it is not just academia. This level of crazy may have started in the public sector and then in academia, but it’s everywhere now.

So if you’re thinking of leaving, it will probably be better in the private sector, but the principle of this ridiculous behaviour still exists and HR departments rarely seem to put their foot down and just stay out of things where adults are adulting.

I mean, it’s a problem because absolutely everything can be classified as bullying and it’s just ridiculous.

She did, but the guy wouldn't leave it alone because he felt he was owed a response he felt was adequate.

It's not like most of us haven't met men like this. They're all over the fucking place, and they're definitely in academia.

Why the fuck has this had to be dealt with by HR it should be a conversation with your line manager. If they need advise on how to deal with it, that's what HR are for. Sick of HR being viewed as some sort of police force and yes I do work in HR .

I missed that she wasn’t a union member and that was at the bottom of the OP, so yes, my bad - it was general advice and if you read back l have actually corrected another poster urging OP to join a union, in that they won’t provide members with support for matters arising before they joined.

As for the right to be accompanied, it’s my understanding that in response to being reported this man has made a complaint about OP, resulting in her being asked by HR to attend a meeting specifically to give her account of their exchange, and that therefore that meeting is about her.

‘Manpandering’ is a great new word for my vocabulary!

Read the OP's updates.

She didn’t agree with you that she was unpleasant, that was entirely unnecessary.

And OPs will often not push back on criticism to avoid a pile on.

So very true. It's infuriating.

Hope the meeting is OK on Friday.

It sounds as though you are trying to evade responsibility for being unnecessarily aggressive.

it doesn’t matter who asks questions. The responsibility for self management is on you.

don’t be overly aggressive, learn to communucate without bullying or lack of civility.

Sorry you're having to deal with this. As someone who has spent years working in HE, I completely sympathise. It's absolutely ridiculous and I'm so glad I'm out of it and in a different sector now. Hope the meeting goes OK on Friday. I also hope he has his arse handed to him for this spectacular waste of everyone's time but unfortunately I suspect that won't happen.

Any woman who stands up for herself instead of simpering and giggling is ‘aggressive’ and a ‘bully’ in your eyes.

I hope you’re not a manager or in any position of authority.

Yes I did read later after I'd posted that you told another poster the OP can't get union representation for this even if she joins one now.

Although the meeting on Fri is essentially about the OP's actions and account, from what the OP said it's an investigatory meeting. It's about HR fact-finding and looking into the man's version of events.

An employee only has a statutory right to bring someone with them if it's a formal disciplinary meeting. It fortunately doesn't seem like the meeting is, and it shouldn't be at this stage.

The OP can certainly ask if she can bring someone with her, and some employers will allow it, but it's at their discretion.

So instead of dealing with people and society as it actually is they are going to have a tantrum or feel really offended because of some comment from a stranger, absolutely ridiculous IMO.

@DrLoveHandles - ignore the people having a go at you. As I and others assumed this is not actually about you - it's a complaint about the man involved. This will be a 'fact finding' exercise by HR to decide the action, if any, to be taken against him. Ask if you can take a colleague with you if you wish, then just go in and calmly explain what happened.

This is tedious. I don’t agree with you I’m leaving there.

i hope yu can catch up with colleagues before Friday @DrLoveHandles

I'm an academic. I could tell you some hideous stories of sex-based discrimination in my workplace. I know few female academics who don't have at least one story. I have a few, two of them really serious. Don't be under any misconception that this is a profession populated by intelligent or enlightened people. Some of its attitudes to women in particular belong in the dark ages.

I'm sorry, OP, that you've been put into this position and find it disgraceful that HR didn't reassure you as to what was actually wanted from you at the start. This is putting employees under needless stress.

I'm a UCU member. National are hit and miss, but we have a very strong local branch. I think that, with this as a precautionary tale, in your shoes I might be inclined to join Unison.

It’s the same in the NHS. Real bad apples get given chance after chance, yet hardworking staff can be accused of bullying because they dare to ask someone to do their job. I have seen it time and time again.