So angry at my previous employer

[Cherryblossom200]

Hello!

Just venting more than anything!

Just to give a bit of context, I’m a project manager and worked with some big global clients. I stepped out of that for a while to work part time 15 hours a week for a small local company. To put it mildly they were massively unprofessional, they expected full time work and expectations in a part time role. I raised it with them a few times and they dismissed it that I was pretty much incapable. Bear in mind this role was just an admin role which I was more than qualified to do. But they didn’t like that I pushed back and made my life difficult. They are used to young uni leavers with no job experience who they can dump work on and won’t complain. In the time I worked there, a girl left due to stress and was only there for 6 months, one girl left after two weeks and her notice period was longer than her time at work. It was a mess.

I started looking for a job fairly quickly, I landed a job working for a charity which was full time. Too be fair I had reservations, the role was for a co-ordinator position and they took me through a 4 stage interview process which was gruelling. That included personality test and a presentation. I got the job subject to references.

They asked to speak to my last few line managers. Two gave great references, but had left the company. And I gave a colleague not my recent line manager because I knew he would give me a bad reference. Yep my mistake, but also I know it’s common to give a different reference as long as they worked there. Anyway the charity found out it wasn’t my line manager, I explained the situation with my previous job and gave them my line managers details but said they probably wouldn’t give me a good reference and explained the reasons why.

Today they called me to say they have retracted the job offer. They basically grilled my references for 30 minutes each over the phone giving them a copy of my job description. So basically my ex line manager was able to say what he liked and there was no paper trail. He is a very vindictive character who who would have loved to say what he liked knowing he could get away with it.

I’m beyond angry, yes I had reservations about the job, but this has completely taken the decision away from me and is now jeopardising future jobs for me. Im thinking of removing the job (I was there for less than 6 months) thoughts?

Yep! She was fine with it, I spoke with her first. Too be honest it wasn’t even clear who my line manager was! 🤣

So how did they find out?

Your senior manager confirmed to them that you were their senior manager and from that they retracted their job offer? I thought everyone at the small company was crap and toxic?

This is a bit weird. But doesn’t change anything… any joy with job hunting? Is it urgent?

No, she was a senior manager at the place o worked, I put her name down instead of my line manager. But the set up wasn’t clear where I worked that it didn’t feel wrong at the time. She knew what I did workwise because we worked together.

But..I’ve since found that two people worked for company associated with the charity and said it wasn’t a nice place to work. So I think I didn’t dodge a bullet.

Yes it’s urgent. I’m going start the search again next week when I have a clearer head.

Still confused

they retracted a job offer because you gave your senior manager as a reference rather than someone junior to them. This is weird. Presumably she confirmed at some point that you don’t report to her directly and it snowballed from there.

It’s not hard to understand? She put a senior manager who wasn’t her line manager down

It was her senior manager
and the company retracted the offer on the basis the reference would be given by someone even more senior than her direct manager.
but they got through to the line manager eventually - who gave them their details? The senior manager? What a bizarre situation!!

Seems a shame that your senior manager didn’t address some of this then:

To put it mildly they were massively unprofessional, they expected full time work and expectations in a part time role. I raised it with them a few times and they dismissed it that I was pretty much incapable

. I cannot stress how unprofessional they are, they a tiny company and I was made to be HR (I have no experience which they knew!) so no HR department they just wing it. They have done a lot of shady things in the past with people but no one has ever taken them up on it

I think the senior manager felt uncomfortable as they wanted a detailed phone call with her. Which is fair enough. Neither of us expected the charity to be quite so rigorous.

The job I did before, the line manager had left due to a breakdown after family bereavement, the charity alluded that I should contact her on linked in so they could talk to her despite me giving HR details which confirmed my employment.

The other two lines managers I worked for gave great references. But the charity questioned why they both gave personal email addresses, one is off on long term sick leave and was forced to log on to their work laptop and confirm they still worked at the company. The other line manager has moved on and they didn’t like that he couldn’t complete the reference document as it needed a company stamp on it. Obviously he couldn’t do that because he no longer worked there! I gave them the HR details to confirm my employment as well. The whole onboarding process wasn’t really fit for purpose. They don’t seem to understand that people move on from their jobs 🤣

Oh I see

so there was perceived sketchiness with all three of your references!!

Yep! But all of them had valid reasons which were totally out of my control. In each instance I gave HR’s details which could confirm everything. What do you do if your line manager has left? They no longer have access to company emails?

Look… there was ambiguity and a bit of sketchiness around all your references

and then one of the references gave you a horrific one

for your next job… you’re going to have to be very careful with giving relevant references precisely what is asked for and no home email addresses

Ok. So if my line manager has left from the majority of my previous companies what do I say? Just give them HR’s details? Because the charity were insistent they talk to my line managers at all my previous work places? I’m not even sure HR would have allowed them to be contacted personally anyway.

Yes

you say previous line manager has left and give HR details.

Its hardly an unusual situation.

What you don’t do is give home addresses and make out someone if your direct lines her who isn’t. Clear?!

I realise that. But to be clear I was upfront about the line managers leaving. I contacted them and they were happy to give references, and also supplied HR’s details to verify. I was trying to show a willingness to help. But next time I’m just going to give HR’s details!

Well you know now

don’t be sketchy

just give hr deets and explain why
the end

"sketchy" is a bit harsh, in the case of the two line managers from her previous full time company anyway. She was trying to make sure the charity contacted the actual people who had worked with her.

And I think its odd that the charity wouldn't accept a senior manager's reference. Its a very small company with no HR so SM must have known OP's work details as well as any line manager. Unless the charity specifically asked for a "line" manager... but as OP says, the roles were blurred. In any case, it does seem unfair that a company she worked for on a 15 hour a week basis for six months should be able to dent her employment chances.

OP I think the best thing would be to write to your former full time company HR and say ... I'm applying for jobs and unfortunately my line managers from your company are either on sick leave or have left. Can you tell me what your policy for reference is in this case?

Im no expert but Perhaps it would be possible for their HR to get a written reference from ops former line managers on file, which the HR ould forward to any new reference requests? Then the former HR can confirm direct to the next job that the line managers are not at the company anymore but here's their written comments. That way its coming direct from the official source.

And I think its odd that the charity wouldn't accept a senior manager's reference. Its a small company so she must have known OP's work details.. Unless the charity specifically asked for a "line" manager... but as OP says, it was a small company and the roles were not that well defined. But as the company didn't have a great atmosphere, perhaps the Senior Manager wasn't as cooperative as she made out.
The company OP just left sounds similar to a Hostile Witness.

That's why I think it would help to discuss the whole reference issue with someone like ACAS. They have a help line Many people must have been in a similar situation with references. And they could help navigate a path where OP could get realistic references for her next job and avoid this pickle. Theyve just produced a guidance report on references, which may help.

Since she says that she's looked further into the charity since then and thinks it wasn't a good fit anyway - although it felt devastating at the time, it sounds like it might prove to be a good learning curve and give her a better chance for the next opportunity. Look on this time as an experiement OP, which will help you straighten it all out.
Next week will be a fresh start to continue your search OP. Wishing you all the best

Great plan apart from the fact that DBS checks would show they'd been convicted of an offence and sentenced to prison

Thank you 🙏 I’m already feeling much better and ready to start the job hunt process again. This time I’m trusting my instincts!

I’ve had a productive morning. I’ve wiped my previous company off my CV and linked in. I think fora 6 month stint it’s better. I’ve been I touch with all my past referees and one has put together a formal email to pass of to new employers highlighting my work and reliability. I’ve contacted the company I worked at previously (not the recent one) and spoken to the new line manager there and she will give me a reference as we worked together and will give also the HR details to verify dates etc. I also have one really good reference from another place. So all references locked in for the next job 😊 I’m absolutely not going to let anything like this happen again. Yes I’ve learned from this. I made a silly decision out because I was under pressure, I’ve never had a bad reference before which is why this is so hard to take. Especially from a company I only worked at for 15 hours a week. It seems very unfair.