So angry at my previous employer

[Cherryblossom200]

Hello!

Just venting more than anything!

Just to give a bit of context, I’m a project manager and worked with some big global clients. I stepped out of that for a while to work part time 15 hours a week for a small local company. To put it mildly they were massively unprofessional, they expected full time work and expectations in a part time role. I raised it with them a few times and they dismissed it that I was pretty much incapable. Bear in mind this role was just an admin role which I was more than qualified to do. But they didn’t like that I pushed back and made my life difficult. They are used to young uni leavers with no job experience who they can dump work on and won’t complain. In the time I worked there, a girl left due to stress and was only there for 6 months, one girl left after two weeks and her notice period was longer than her time at work. It was a mess.

I started looking for a job fairly quickly, I landed a job working for a charity which was full time. Too be fair I had reservations, the role was for a co-ordinator position and they took me through a 4 stage interview process which was gruelling. That included personality test and a presentation. I got the job subject to references.

They asked to speak to my last few line managers. Two gave great references, but had left the company. And I gave a colleague not my recent line manager because I knew he would give me a bad reference. Yep my mistake, but also I know it’s common to give a different reference as long as they worked there. Anyway the charity found out it wasn’t my line manager, I explained the situation with my previous job and gave them my line managers details but said they probably wouldn’t give me a good reference and explained the reasons why.

Today they called me to say they have retracted the job offer. They basically grilled my references for 30 minutes each over the phone giving them a copy of my job description. So basically my ex line manager was able to say what he liked and there was no paper trail. He is a very vindictive character who who would have loved to say what he liked knowing he could get away with it.

I’m beyond angry, yes I had reservations about the job, but this has completely taken the decision away from me and is now jeopardising future jobs for me. Im thinking of removing the job (I was there for less than 6 months) thoughts?

Yes, I would leave it off your Cv, what a nightmare.

Could the withdrawal be because you weren't upfront about putting down someone other than your manager for the reference?

Technically you're not allowed to give a bad reference but I guess if over the phone, there would be no proof he did. I would just remove it or if they have a HR department, use them for the reference in future

Technically, you’re utterly wrong.

You can say anything you like in a reference provided it is true.

Yes I think it didn’t help that I didn’t put my line manager down but I think that he would have still given a bad reference which would have ended up in the same situation. So annoying as it was a little part time job which has dictated this.

Oh, it's always been policy where I've worked that HR have to give the references for that reason but perhaps that's more a burden of proof due to needing to be fair and accurate.
The references HR would provide are along the lines of 'OP worked here for X time in Y role' or they would decline to provide

If I leave this off my CV there would be a 12 month employment gap, I’ve not had one before so it wouldn’t look that bad. Not sure what I should do? x

@Maureenwasacat that’s been the case previously. But the charity requested lengthy phone calls with my previous companies, as I said the other references were absolutely fine. I had been there for a number of years so they should have been weightier but clearly meant nothing.

References are legally required to be truthful, accurate and fair. If they have retracted a job offer based on a reference, there must be some written notes of what was said, and you would have the right to see this through a subject access request. Which you could then challenge. However, if they retracted the offer for another reason, you may not have any grounds to challenge.

References are expressly excluded from a SAR.

PS - check out this link from ACAS. It clearly says if a job offer is retracted because of a bad reference it should be discussed with you first, and you have the right to ask them to check if the reference was fair or accurate.

https://www.acas.org.uk/providing-a-job-reference/if-you-get-a-bad-reference

I’ve already asked for a subject to access request. I’m 💯 sure it was down to this one specific reference because I know the rest were fine, I didn’t embellish anything. The charity even said they were great. The problem them didn’t like that my recent other line managers were no longer working in the same companies. They wanted everything on company headed paper etc which was impossible. But HR gave all my details to confirm my time working within the organisations.

They might be, and GDPR may come into play, but there are ways to challenge bad references. Its worth doing. Or asking them for further information because the company withdrawing the offer has some explaining to do. People are not just allowed to say whatever they want to in a reference without any come back - there are rules about what is allowed.

@MrsChristmasHasResignedIve gone back to the charity to ask what was said and they have been very sketchy with their response. Just saying we retracted the job offer due to suitable references but didn’t say anything more. I even signed the contract!

This is exactly what the charity said ‘We retracted the job offer based on the fact we required suitable references as stated in our offer letter; all I can advise you is to go to your referees, as I said on the call’

I guess it depends how far you want to push then, and even if you win, may not be the best start to a working relationship. But it may be worth speaking to ACAS, because you have rights in this situation and they are not following the process they are supposed to. They have a helpline, and if I were you I would be calling it tomorrow.

I don’t want to work for them, and I’m going to drop it. But I will speak to Acas just to get their advice. I don’t think they have followed the right process at all. They even recorded one of my interviews 🫣

I know it's a bit of a legally grey area, but this is why I personally write my own most recent reference and have one from an employer who has previously given good ones. Not willing to risk my future and won't apologise for it either.

It’s not “legally grey”, it’s FRAUD!!!!!

cry me a god damn river. I have bills to pay.

Well today I’ve hit the charity with a SAR because being evasive and not really disclosing what was said to make them retract the job offer doesn’t sit right with me. I have a right to know after four rounds of interviews! I don’t want to work there and that’s not the point of this. But I have a right to know what was said, especially by my previous employer which I know is what made them decide to change their mind.

I’ve also sent a comprehensive email to my previous employer explaining how I was unable to do my job for X, Y and X reasons kept it professional but just so I have it on record for future.

Normally I wouldn’t say anything and avoid conflict but this is pretty serious and I believe something has been said which is untrue. Basically I’m almost certain my ex employer has shouted his mouth of in a phone call to the charity without thinking of the consequences.

Take it off your cv and explain the gap by "providing end of life care for elderly relative". This is a real conversation stopper at interviews and the interviewer will quickly skirt over it. A friend of mine did it to mask a spell in prison. The interviewer just said "Sorry for your loss. That must have been tough." No one is going to ask for proof.

But I have a right to know what was said, especially by my previous employer which I know is what made them decide to change their mind.

You actually don’t.

Wow. Bet they would be the first to anger if their employer covered up something as serious though.

Everyday there’s just more and more evidence that humans are fucked.

Honestly, I would be more concerned about the dishonesty in a prospective employee than a bad reference. If I had specifically asked to speak to your previous line managers and you had attempted to deceive me by passing someone else off as your former line manager, that would be a massive red flag, and it would make me take any concerns subsequently expressed by the former employer much more seriously.

You are allowed to give a bad reference, you're not allowed to give an untruthful reference. Much of which will be a matter of opinion.

Yes OP, a six months break while you had caring responsibilities (?) maybe did some volunteering (?) and/or had a personal project will be fine on your CV.