So angry at my previous employer

[Cherryblossom200]

Hello!

Just venting more than anything!

Just to give a bit of context, I’m a project manager and worked with some big global clients. I stepped out of that for a while to work part time 15 hours a week for a small local company. To put it mildly they were massively unprofessional, they expected full time work and expectations in a part time role. I raised it with them a few times and they dismissed it that I was pretty much incapable. Bear in mind this role was just an admin role which I was more than qualified to do. But they didn’t like that I pushed back and made my life difficult. They are used to young uni leavers with no job experience who they can dump work on and won’t complain. In the time I worked there, a girl left due to stress and was only there for 6 months, one girl left after two weeks and her notice period was longer than her time at work. It was a mess.

I started looking for a job fairly quickly, I landed a job working for a charity which was full time. Too be fair I had reservations, the role was for a co-ordinator position and they took me through a 4 stage interview process which was gruelling. That included personality test and a presentation. I got the job subject to references.

They asked to speak to my last few line managers. Two gave great references, but had left the company. And I gave a colleague not my recent line manager because I knew he would give me a bad reference. Yep my mistake, but also I know it’s common to give a different reference as long as they worked there. Anyway the charity found out it wasn’t my line manager, I explained the situation with my previous job and gave them my line managers details but said they probably wouldn’t give me a good reference and explained the reasons why.

Today they called me to say they have retracted the job offer. They basically grilled my references for 30 minutes each over the phone giving them a copy of my job description. So basically my ex line manager was able to say what he liked and there was no paper trail. He is a very vindictive character who who would have loved to say what he liked knowing he could get away with it.

I’m beyond angry, yes I had reservations about the job, but this has completely taken the decision away from me and is now jeopardising future jobs for me. Im thinking of removing the job (I was there for less than 6 months) thoughts?

How, don't they new employer contact the old one directly?

I know I should have been honest about my previous line manager but I knew he would rip me apart, I was honest and explained why I put my colleague down but I think it’s really not helped what he would of said.

I think it's unusual for employers to give much value to references, beyond a quick check that you did actually do the job you said you did. I suspect it's the lying that's caught you out, along with you knowing he wouldn't give you a good reference, more than anything the old line manager said.

I think the SAR will simply say the offer was withdrawn because it became apparent you gave false information in your application.

Speak to ACAS and see if there’s anything you can do. I took a previous employer to small claims for loss of earnings due to incorrect bad reference, but everything was documented on email so might be a bit different. Still worth a call to ACAS - they are brilliant.

Speak to ACAS, but the bottom line is you were dishonest. You could just leave it off future applications but if you ever want to work in a school or setting with children or young people you won't be able to omit it and will have to be scrupulously honest about what happened, so it would be good to get some resolution as to exactly why it was withdrawn. If the charity role is one where you would be in contact with children or young people that could be why they grilled the references.

I don't think OP would have to declare to work in school etc. If she says she had a 6 month break to care for DC or similar, they won't question it.

I think I wouldn’t have been offered the job regardless of who I put down. Because if I would have explained that I don’t want to put my line manager down they would have questioned why. And if I put my line manager down in the first place he would have given a bad reference so it was a lose lose situation.

Ive spoken to Acas and not much I can do because I was there for less than 6 months.

My aim is to now find out what was said by my previous employer and challenge what was said. Because they treated me unfairly, hence why I wanted to leave and why other people are going through the same thing as me.

If I remove this job there would be an almost 1 year break, which is ok I think it’s still not bad. I’ve already removed it from my LinkedIn in profile

They will.

How? If she had and a six month break as SAHM, how can they prove/disprove that? They won't. I've been the person doing the vetting, and contacting referees, in four different schools. If she says she was a SAHM, she was a SAHM. What else can they do?

You can't ever know what would have happened if you hadn't lied.

I have employed people with not so great references before - I've discussed the feedback with them and listened to their perspective. However, I wouldn't bother if the candidate had already proven themselves to be dishonest because that would just be stupid.

It's fine to be annoyed with your former employer, but honestly, I think you fucked this one up for yourself.

I agree, charities can afford to be very choosy who they employ at the moment.

IANAL... if you want to take any grievance further it should be with your previous employer for defamation/loss of earnings.

Does previous employer have an HR department? Could you agree that in future your referee is from HR to confirm dates/ weren't sacked/ no investigations etc and leave line manager off?

Thats why I’ve asked for a SAR form both sides, mainly because I don’t believe my previous employer will play back the book and will omit documents. I cannot stress how unprofessional they are, they a tiny company and I was made to be HR (I have no experience which they knew!) so no HR department they just wing it. They have done a lot of shady things in the past with people but no one has ever taken them up on it - yet! I want to know what was said because I’m almost certain it was defamation of character.

Honestly, what do you hope to achieve from all this?

You know what to do going forward and are just winding yourself up. You're not making yourself sound like someone I'd want to employ, unfair as that may be.

Because I’ve been unfairly treated by my recent employer and it’s been a big reason why I lost my current job. You don’t know a lot of the details of what happened when I worked there which I’ve won’t go into, but I have a valid reason to be upset. Yes I made a mistake, but it was because of fear of what my recent manager would say. I would not normally go to these lengths if there was not good reason. I went through a ridiculous interview process (4 stages of intense interviews) so I want to understand what was said.

Well, if you can lie your way through an interview (where the interviewers have been trained to look out for exactly this sort of thing), lie to your new colleagues, remember never to mention your previous job to anyone in your new workplace (not forgetting they have all had safeguarding training too), then yes you might get away with it because after all you can't prove a negative. Far better to be completely honest about the whole thing and not risk getting fired on the spot if you are found out to have been lying.

Yes, but what are you hoping to achieve? You were there a matter of months, you had no employment rights, there's nothing written down, the Charity will say it's because you weren't truthful on your application.

What do you hope the outcome will be? Is that realistic and will it ultimately help you?

Apologies for the derail, the OP hasn't said the work is with children, but worth bearing in mind for the future.

They won't ask at interview. Of all the employment history, they're not going to ask about a few months as a SAHM, and new colleagues won't know anything about what was on the application. Plus it's not even lying really, presumably OP was a SAHM except for the 15 hours pw she was working.

I’m not expecting them to change their minds, however I do want to know what was said.

Funny definition of lying but 🤷‍♀️

Ok, but it's highly unlikely that you will, and what would you do with that information if you did?

Im just saying it's an easy lie to maintain, but she wouldn't need to. No one will know or care that she had six months as a SAHM.

References aren't disclosable under a SAR. They dont need to say anything other than 'we can't disclose this'