So angry at my previous employer

[Cherryblossom200]

Hello!

Just venting more than anything!

Just to give a bit of context, I’m a project manager and worked with some big global clients. I stepped out of that for a while to work part time 15 hours a week for a small local company. To put it mildly they were massively unprofessional, they expected full time work and expectations in a part time role. I raised it with them a few times and they dismissed it that I was pretty much incapable. Bear in mind this role was just an admin role which I was more than qualified to do. But they didn’t like that I pushed back and made my life difficult. They are used to young uni leavers with no job experience who they can dump work on and won’t complain. In the time I worked there, a girl left due to stress and was only there for 6 months, one girl left after two weeks and her notice period was longer than her time at work. It was a mess.

I started looking for a job fairly quickly, I landed a job working for a charity which was full time. Too be fair I had reservations, the role was for a co-ordinator position and they took me through a 4 stage interview process which was gruelling. That included personality test and a presentation. I got the job subject to references.

They asked to speak to my last few line managers. Two gave great references, but had left the company. And I gave a colleague not my recent line manager because I knew he would give me a bad reference. Yep my mistake, but also I know it’s common to give a different reference as long as they worked there. Anyway the charity found out it wasn’t my line manager, I explained the situation with my previous job and gave them my line managers details but said they probably wouldn’t give me a good reference and explained the reasons why.

Today they called me to say they have retracted the job offer. They basically grilled my references for 30 minutes each over the phone giving them a copy of my job description. So basically my ex line manager was able to say what he liked and there was no paper trail. He is a very vindictive character who who would have loved to say what he liked knowing he could get away with it.

I’m beyond angry, yes I had reservations about the job, but this has completely taken the decision away from me and is now jeopardising future jobs for me. Im thinking of removing the job (I was there for less than 6 months) thoughts?

If my ex employer has said something which is untrue and unfair then I’m going to speak to a lawyer! I’m not going to allow a company to ruin my career because of a little part time job I did for 6 months.

Yea but how will you know because references aren't disclosable under a SAR

But there still has to be a paper trail which will include my name, so emails etc will have details about why the offer was retracted

Yes but they can just redact

It looks dishonest to put someone as a reference - most employers will expect a live manager

That's not a reference, that's a testimonial.

References aren’t covered under SAR

At the end of the day you out and out lied. A bad reference is no where near as bad as lying. How could they trust you going forward if you’ve started the relationship with a big lie

It sounds like you've possibly had a lucky escape from both to be honest. I turned down an offer from a company who did a personality test as part of my recruitment - relying on such outmoded methods of selecting people put me off them, particularly as they planned to use the results to tailor my role! Depending on seniority, the four interviews would also be a red flag - but most of all, interrogating the references.

As for the reference, it depends on how you came to name this colleague who wasn't your line manager in the first instance, though. Was this supplied dishonestly - and then this came to light and you had to explain? Or was the request for references done in such a way that this other colleague seemed a legitimate option?

If the latter and they really liked you, I find it odd that more weight wasn't given to the presumably positive references from your earlier employers over a PT, short-lived role.

No I put someone else down as my line manager, so yes it was my fault and I take that. But I didn’t feel I had a choice because I knew my ex employer would give me a bad reference. I’ve never been in this situation before so I had no idea how to navigate it. Obviously I won’t do that again! But as I mentioned before I think the outcome would have been the same even if I did put my ex line manager down. They scrutinised everything so I think the outcome would have been the same.

You did have a choice and you chose to lie

The fact you implied this person was a line manager when they weren’t also puts that person in a really unfair position

Ah, ok. I'd missed the detail that you'd named this person AS your line manager. I think that would be a problem for most would-be employers!

Lesson learned, though. I do still think the psychometric tests and intensive vetting may mean that this company may not have been ideal!

hehe :ppppppppp

OP.. maybe you could run this past an employment lawyer if you have that on your household insurance.. or ask ACAS for advice on faulty references.. People must have come across a similar problem.

Is there any chance you could do a short term freelance contract for your old employers? Just to get your references back on track? As you could be working for people who know you from your previous post and would be able to ref the new freelance work as well as their knowledge of your previous work? maybe a maternity or holiday cover. I think they are more flexible on hours if its a freelance contract.

HMRC records.

References aren’t covered by a SAR request. (Has that sunk in yet?)

The charity (and any other employer) doesn’t care what your previous employer may or may not have done to wrong you. They do care if you lie to them to get a job.

Bullet dodged. And I don't mean by the OP.

As stated above, you don't actually know what the outcome might have been if you had just been honest about your situation.

You are framing this as if you had no choice but to lie. But that's not true, lying was simply the choice that you made. You could have explained the issues to your new employer when providing the referee details.

All decent employers know that there are some really dodgy employers out there. We're generally willing to consider the fact that someone may have had a bad experience in a crap company, especially when other strong references are available. And if your previous company are as unprofessional as you say they are, it's likely that this would come across in any reference conversation anyway.

The problem is, you responded as if you had something to hide. And then you lied in order to get what you wanted. That's two big red flags that a prospective employer would not to ignore - regardless of what your former employer did or didn't say, you showed a lack of integrity that would make you utterly unemployable in my eyes. I need staff that I know I can trust. If you lie to me during the recruitment process, I'm not interested.

Yes I know I made a mistake. And I’m beating myself over it, I’ve never been in a situation like this with such a volatile ex employer. I put the name down under pressure and in fear I guess. My gut feel by the interview process is that even with me explaining what happened and putting my line manager on the form the same thing would have happened regardless. The charity were so rigorous with the process that despite my other references this one being my most recent would have been a red flag.

I’m kicking myself for working part time at this place and not just waiting until something better came along. I would never again work for a small independent agency again! There is no HR just the owners.

I’ve learnt from this situation and think that I am sadly indeed unemployable now.

My mental health from workiing at the agency and going through this experience isn’t great so I’m not sure about my future now. I’m a full time single mum, I have no back up financially which is partly why I panicked and did what I did. I’ve always worked and paid my way to society but I’m now at a stage where I feel I have no future anymore.

can you join an agency in the meantime, just for some work, for your mental health,

I think this has really dented my confidence. I’m limited to the type of work I can do due to childcare responsibilities. This role was remote which was great. I don’t think I’m in the frame of mind to want to work in the corporate world again. I had an estate agent coming over today and I’m looking at selling my house now, it will relieve the pressure and I’ll try and find somewhere I can buy outright and not have a mortgage which will help me massively x

Honestly, take a few days to gather your thoughts, put it down to experience and never, ever lie as part of a job application process again. Employers will respond better to someone explaining honestly why the last job went so wrong than trying to cover it up.

How will you pay the lawyer if you haven't got a job? Just forget it, leave that place off and get back on the job search. You came close so you must be good. So just keep applying.

This dogged determination to find out what was said in the reference will come to nothing as it's non disclosable as part of SAR.

But anything else relating to the reference including emails will have to be disclosed. So there will be a paper trail out there. I definitely what to understand what was said.

She worked for a bullying narc, who continued this to damage her future career, and that has dented her confidence and made her decide to swear off any future corporate work, which is a real shame. Feeling stuck in a horrible situation like that and then having it follow you is a really difficult thing to go through. There are disreputable employers who behave like this and its very damaging.

Unfortunately, they own the business and there is no HR, but OP is a solo parent and has to take a long term view and not be beaten down by this creep. She has the qualifications, capabillity and proven track record. In every career there is a patch that was difficult or an obstacle to overcome.

So I don't think its wasted energy at all for her to get some advice and perhaps guidance from something like ACAS, because they must have seen this many times and would have some useful advice or strategies to deal with his Narc's influence and find a way to replace/outweigh it with a more accurate picture. Maybe doing holiday/maternity cover for former employers or colleagues, getting in touch with them to see if theyve heard of anything on the grapevine.

Alternatively, she may have legal protection on her household insurance.. this usually covers employment and she can at least consult someone. Even if it turns out its better to drop it, she can make that decision based on RL advice/knowledge. Its only at the point of actually suing someone where she'd have to weigh up the cost as such.

In any case, having consulted someone like that, it may get this out of her system and renew her confidence in her career prospects again, which would be a very good out come in the end.
Employment therapy if you like.

@DuckbilledSplatterPuffthank you you are spot on. I don’t like using words like bullying, but I was treated really badly. I’ll give some examples of my experience there because in my eyes it didn’t feel right.

Firstly they ploughed me with work in a 15 hour week which was representative of a full time job. I highlighted it numerous times and was ignored and told it’s my responsibility to prioritise my work. Two other people are having the same issue. In meetings with the owner and wife they would almost shout at me, between them both they backed me in a corner where I felt I couldn’t speak openly and honestly towards the end because I lost my confidence. They gave little to no training or showed me where anything was, there response was just ‘Google it’ and then if things went wrong I got the blame. They used gaslighting techniques, reduced a previous employee to tears everyday that she was signed off for sick leave. Every single person who has left has left in bad terms.

And somehow this company is allowed to run a business and get away with this. They are now trying to wreck my career. They are very vindictive, the sort who like to get back at people. Which is why I did the SAR in the first place, more to annoy them (not the charity) but also try and get clarify on what happened.