Constant criticism from people I manage about my management

[Teakake]

As per the title, I am finding myself receiving unsolicited feedback from staff. I am significantly younger than many of them and in the past they have been used to a manager who hangs around drinking tea and asking about your weekend plans, or getting caught up in tiny details and basically doing all the perceived ‘easy’ little jobs which other staff are already here to do.

Problem is, this was running the business down the drain, and the most important jobs were not getting done, so I am a business manager, here to get efficiencies. I am not answering the phones at reception because I employ people to do that and my time is spent on other areas of the business.

However do not get this wrong, I will gladly pitch in if help is needed and we are unexpectedly busy or understaffed, I do not think of myself as too good for any job and I know how everyone’s job works as I have learnt this from them directly.

I do not micromanage - I am here for support if it’s needed. I don’t work remotely, am on site all day full time. I am very busy so I am often whizzing around and will say hi quickly in passing, and I ask staff to give me a heads up about what they want to talk to me about so that I can prioritise if this is urgent or not, as some of my work is very time critical.

The staff feel I don’t spend enough time with them. I ask why they want this time, is it work related? If so, I will arrange training.

No it’s because they want to feel important and special to me.

They are constantly interrupting me, demanding my time and when I give it to them, they just use that time to complain. I try to help them get out of circular thinking they don’t want to, So I leave the discussion with no resolution.

Even if I tell them that I don’t have extra time, I am in meetings and I have deadlines, it’s never good enough. I am here all day but they say ‘we never see you’ or ‘you don’t show any interest in us’ and ‘you are cold and too professional’.

They are important as humans, and valued in the workplace so I ensure they all have a safe working environment, stable work patterns, adequate training, annual appraisals, work related meetings.

No this is not what they mean. They are offended I am not their FRIEND. I am not befriending them and sitting on their desk chit chatting.

I do not want to be their friend. I just want to be their manager.

I am going to be honest, the clingy neediness is not helping, it feels like I have a large group of ladies clinging to my arms like small children, dragging me down.

I have put in boundaries and they do not respond well.

I approached my managers and asked if they agreed with this feedback from staff. They said no, I am doing exactly what they want me to do. I asked if they wanted me to do anything differently. They said no, my performance was great. There is no issue. The issue is the staff who have bad attitudes. I have suggested sharing an overview of my diary with the whole team so they can see how busy I am. No, they just want me to performance manage these people - which I am, but as they are constantly criticising me, we just don’t make any progress.

My managers are not helping me here.

In order to get out of this rut I have the following options:

-Put them all on last warning/performance plans
-take a tribunal risk and start letting people go (not all that comfortable with this, because it’s started to concern me I am part of the issue)
-Leave myself and get a new job
-start faking friendliness to the detriment of my job and productivity (I can’t do this!)
-take out formal grievances on the ring leaders to force my managers to intervene

I had this exact problem a few years ago. I’ll bet it’s not you, it’s them. My staff just wanted to talk to me all day (not do any work) and tell me where I was going wrong despite them being unpleasant a lot of the time.
If they approached me with 100 problems on Monday and I solved them all they would have 100 different ones by Tuesday morning.

If some of them leave/retire you might be able to change the dynamic, if not leave for your own sake. I wasted too much time trying to solve the unsolvable.

The complaing staff sound bat shit crazy - it's a job, they're paid to do it. I'm a bit more on the chat about the weekend type of manager, but you sound like you're pleasant and resaonable, and that's OK too.

I'm.surprised that you're getting sych criticism here - you're a manager, not a counsellor!

I'm shocked thatva group of staff have refused to deal with the HR manager, I'd change that straight away - remind everyone of the procedures, say all staff will be treated the same way in future, as it was unfair that there were different processes for different staff. If they don't comply, then it's written warning time.

Re their work and the inability of their line managers to manage them effectively, you need to support the line managers to up their game. I think a bit of micromanaging can be necessary here, ideally with targets, they need to get the message that the easy days are over.

You might lose some staff, but that would probably be for the best, will help to change the culture. You may have to let one or two go if they continue to refuse to engage with HE, but again, short term pain for long term gain.

I'm been in your shoes, and I really believe that you wouldn't be getting so much crap if you were a man.

I find the people side of management frustrating but I think there are some mechanisms that don’t need to cut into your time significantly but can aid relationships (and performance) positively. Put in a hours slot a week as an ‘ask me anything’ drop in. People can use this if they want extra time with you to raise things. Often people don’t even use this but having can be well received. And perhaps another once a month for ‘making suggestions’. Keep up the regular 121s and devote a small portion of that to getting to know people individually better by asking a few non work questions. You can have a stack of these and pick and choose to keep it interesting. If the team isn’t too large put in a quarterly career chat with all individuals, you don’t want to step on your team leaders’ toes but this also increases the contact that your teams feel is lacking. If you have a large enough team then asking for a few volunteers to organise all of this for you, finally consider getting a coach to support you with this challenge. Good luck,
.

Standing around and drinking tea is actually really important OP. It shows you’re human. It shows you care. People are more likely to do what you want if they like you.

Hate to tell you but you aren’t as important as you think! Stop whizzing around- you aren’t a heart surgeon. Whatever it is can wait.

people matter.

fuck that for a game of soldiers

Absolutely this. 👆 @Teakake You actually sound like a great business manager (and certainly one I would enjoy working with) but you've made the mistake of not relying on the hierarchy of line reporting. By allowing yourself to get involved with the minutiae of these staff members' every petty quibble, you've accidentally and erroneously undermined the reporting structure. These people have line managers - it is they who they should be speaking to about daily routine matters and their LMs should then escalate only exceptional issues to you. Similarly, with your HR manager - why did you undermine them by doing the staff appraisals simply because the staff refused to have them done by the HR manager? That's not their decision to make. It seems like you're allowing the tail to wag the dog and I'm afraid you're going to have to make yourself even more unpopular by reinforcing the established reporting structure. You and the HR manager need to work closely together to ensure you are adhering to employment law in your business practices and that you respond to any staff grievances (which should be raised with their LM in the first instance!) appropriately and in line with your own lawful procedures. Beyond this, you need to support the LMs to manage these staff appropriately without getting dragged into every issue (and practise saying "You need to speak to your LM about that"). These "needy women" may not like the way you operate compared to your predecessor, but with persistence, they will get used to it.

If you started being their kind of 'friendly' they would probably accuse you of favouritism. You can't really win, but if you are obviously fair and even handed, that is your best position. Just keep going as you are, but maintain a pleasant, calm manner as you go about your day, when you are in their presence. The biggest compliment I ever got, when I was managing staff, who had a reputation of complaining of low morale, was when one of them remarked that I never seemed to have bad moods or feel stressed. I said that I often did, but if they saw that, it would be unprofessional of me, and I left my moods at home.

One thing you've not mentioned is to have a group meeting and clarify what your role is and the management structure and who does what, and who is responsible for what.

You should have an organogram to talk around. The meeting could be part of a team meeting so not having a go at particular individuals but just making it crystal clear about how things and people work.

If you're not their line manager, just smile and tell them 'this seems like something your line manager is best placed to help you with' and move on. Email their line manager with them copied in if necessary (Hi X, Y has approached me to highlight an issue she is having with room temperature/time off/whatever. I trust you can help her with this).

I do think you need to take the time to make them feel 'seen' though. Most of the successful managers I've worked with have managed to make everyone from the receptionist to CEO feel like they matter to them.

If you are being verbally abused, bullied etc.? Yes, throw the "book" at them. Document everything, give them a last warning, involve HR etc. But it does sound like that is a small minority.

So for the others, that don't bully or verbally abuse you?
I think you need to remember that you are managing PEOPLE. Not machines. It therefore isn't simply about efficiency. It is also about friendliness and people skills.

-Leave myself and get a new job
-start faking friendliness to the detriment of my job and productivity (I can’t do this!)

I'd pick either of these options. Either learn how to manage people (which includes being friendly) or get a new job.

You’re contradicting yourself here. If you consider staff approaching you to be ‘interrupting’ and their requests to be irrelevant, it doesn’t sound like you are approachable.

If you don’t like your team (and can’t fake it), then another job or a step down is probably the only solution.

Sounds like you have a small pack of horrid bullies.

I doubt they will change, but if they poison the workplace to the extent you describe, you need to find out what the systems are for dealing with poor behaviour and if there are none, put them in place.

Are you the only person being bullied by them? If senior management cares about keeping you, let them know they need to
support you on this or you are leaving.

Would ACAS or some similar organisation be able to help?

It does seem odd that these people all need a personal relationship with their boss, but it sounds like it must be addressed all the same! You do want to be at least warm to them, but I don't think you should have to be their friend or take time away from work projects to socialize with them other than the usual pleasantries.

What about a monthly team lunch? That might give them the bonding experience that they crave and will be confined to a very set amount of time that won't impact daily work flow.

Honestly, if they need more than that, I'd be inclined to hire new people because at a certain point it becomes unprofessional on their part.

Based on experience as an employee and only very occasionally a manager… I wouldn’t try to fake something you’re not. I would also give it time. If you really think the performance of your direct reports/their staff is so bad, then by all means think about performance plans. Also make sure you are heavily involved in recruitment, because your best shot is some of these people leaving and getting some people you’re more in tune with in. Tbh over time they will get tired of moaning about you and will get something else to complain about.

Think about your strengths and play to them. If it’s important to you that the business achieves X, then if it dies, or if it improves that area, celebrate that very publicly. There will be some people who feel pleased, even if the culture doesn’t yet allow them to show it. Be yourself, recognising that this doesn’t mean just riding roughshod over people. Be as fair as you possibly can.

Tbh consider working remotely sometimes, a regular day perhaps. Everyone deserves a day off when relationships are fraught - them and you.

This a constructive comment. In my old work place - one of the managers did. He thought everyone was the problem. However, thing improved after he left. He was very toxic, controlling and tended micro-manage.

Sorry this doesn’t make sense. Why wouldn’t I ask my managers for feedback for a sense check? I am employed by them. Not the staff. And at no point have I made out I am perfect or don’t need to change anything. I feel exhausted and bullied and this thread has just enforced that people only have their own narrative and don’t take time to look at any nuances, this is not a black vs white or good vs bad

OP unfortunately your responses sounds robotic and cold and that isn’t helping your case. You clearly think that by following the rules of management you are a great manger which it would suggest you have room to develop.

I think you need to look at what you are doing. Pointing thr finger at then means you need to be aware that three other fingers are pointing back at you.

Managing people isn’t just managing their work but you don’t seem to grasp this.

You aren’t being bullied out of a job thats kinda ridiculous.

Are you more introvert than extrovert ? Are you naturally more task focus…sounds it

Early in my career (retired now) I was often described as “aloof”, “standoffish” etc. I didn’t think I was. I was “just” task focused , and frankly had a good dose of imposter syndrome and older staff seemed a bit intimidating even if reporting to me. . I was bloody good at my job, high performance ratings etc. but I’d still get these odd comments around being a bit busy, not available, not chatting, etc etc . I didn’t like managing people frankly, felt all a bit of hassle with listening to them about non task stuff such as their home life, and all the problems they were dealing with.

One of my senior leadership team (didn’t report to him, part of directors board) randomly took me aside one day and told me the biggest bit of helpful feedback in my career “you’ve got to learn to do the soft fluffy stuff”. This leader meant I needed to do it upwards to leadership as I’d jump straight into task based stuff and not general chit chat as I entered the meeting, but I realised it meant to everyone, especially my team.

so I did. Not easy. It still drove me bats as I wanted to get down to business, but I faked it till I made it become natural. . Sure, people I managed knew I was task focused, driving, a tadge impatient (I was honest with them) but gradually they warmed to me and knew I was actually a really good boss in helping them develop and improving technical skills, and they knew if they did their best I was a bloody good boss in standing my ground re resources, support and recombination for the team.

soft fluffy stuff is important I found out. To me as well as them. Sure there’s a dividing line between soft and fluffy not being effective and efficiency, or being a cool dispassionate, logical person, whose team actually feel unsupported no matter how efficient they became.

right now from what you’ve said I’d say there are some things you must change, and a few things you might want to try

1. STOP using HR for performance management. For goodness sake why are you doing that? HR are part of the leadership team to provide policies and procedures on how to manage people. Not their role or skills or experience to do PM. I would be appalled if my boss had abdicated PM to HR.
2. Ensure you have at least biweekly 1:1 with each team member who reports to you. Tell them it is THEIR meeting. You expect them to come prepared . Design a profroma they can use with heading like “what you need to know(you being their boss), what I (they) need help with, what decisions I (they) need from you, training and development. Progress on development Holidays etc . Always start with soft and fluffy. Ask them how they are, how their kids are , their dog or whatever it takes. Bite your lip…let them talk a bit before you jump in with task based stuff. find some common thread you can use to talk about you too for a few mins at start and end of each 1:1 .
3. start doing STAR feedback. Situation, task, action, result. Be specific on things you need them to improve and HOW. Problem solve the issues with them, clewrly state what you want them to stop, start or continue. Make it spepcifc. Make it measureable. , And always give postive feedback on what they’ve done well. Search it out. Include that in 1:1 and Final year reviews etc should not come as surprise to them . Look up STARs if you don’t use it yet.
4. do NOT start any disciplinary action until you can show you’ve spent time giving STAR specific feedback, coaching support etc and they are will fully ignoring it. Then move to PIP . otherwise you will find yourself embroiled in court action for unfair dismissal. Jeez, these women might annoy you but you’re coming across like a bully frankly with what you’re threatening. I’m sure you aren’t, but you are saying things that sure as heck don’t show you want to fix this, just lash out in frustration.
5. organsie team building events. Take your team away from business and spend a day on various work based exercises. And a fun event to finish. It doesn’t have to be expensive. It is NOT wasting time. It is investing time, your team need to get to know you. Show humility in your weaknesses (including that you clearly aren’t good at soft and fluffy). A very powerful team building exercise, if company can stretch to it is a group personality test session. Needs a professional involved. Simple things like icebreakers are essential - even if you think they’re a waste of time, it’s all about people feeling safe with you, building trust, and you finding out your team are just normal human adult women , not some sort of “pack”o f flaky emotional incompetents. You can include serious work based things like a continuous improvement activity, or group exercise in improving ways of working…get them to problem solve or think creatively with you…they’ll change more readily if the ideas come from them (even if you have to lead them to the answer you want!)
6. develop some “culture”in your team….i used to organise the secret Santa come in night before to decorate a fake chimney with random flip chart and boxes and marker pen weird decorations. I always bought in a chocolate advent calendar. I used to bring hot cross buns for breakfast at Easter, I would give a bag of specific sweets on birthdays, make sure the birthday card was sent round to be signed. Etc etc. they aren’t big things, they certainly didn’t cost me much (couldn’t afford it) but it showed I did care about them. Simple things like having lunch as a team once per month even if you sit around a table with your individual packed lunches.
7. walk the shop- you MUST walk around office or place of work, every day, just say hi and ask one question of each team member, make it brief …tell them if necessary it will be brief..make it a ritual
8. Recognise the good. Thank people immedately. Put forward people for bigger recognition as much as possible. Including where not your team. People may be getting paid, but they also want to be recognised and thank you is free, quick and appreciated.
9. do silly things. Fun stuff. Try to have a laugh with at least one member of your team each day
10. accept and encourage “360 feedback” .you sound horrified they’re giving you feedback. How will you develop as a better leader if you don’t listen to what your team think about your leadership style and skills. It is vital. Any company worth it’s sort insists on 360 feedback for leaders. Remember you do not have to accept responsibility for whatever the feedback is if you don’t agree, but you (and everyone getting feedback) needs to take accountability of fixing it. Often feedback is misunderstanding, mis alignment, not agreeing expectations that can simply be sorted by talking.

but

1. make it clear when your door is shut, or you have a notice on your desk it means don’t disturb unless it’s an emergency.
2. tell them if urgent, and you’ve got a do not not disturb on, to pop a note on your desk, or send email marked “must talk
3. and make a point of taking notice down or opening door every single day, maybe even accompanied by a “is everyone ok.? ” when you do so.

this isn’t about what you can deliver to business. You’re clearly doing very well. It’s about bringing people with you. Getting people to work with you with pleasure and eagerness. You can make people work for you and hate it (both sides) all too easily by doing very little to encourage it. It takes work and effort to make a team. work well

Maybe read up more around team, building…specially around “form, storm, norm, perform “

good luck

How many are there? If possible, slot weekly 1-to1s with them, 30 mins each is enough, and start documenting what is covered at these meetings. If it’s just they want you to be their friend, just ignore it and move onto the next item on the agenda.

after a couple of months one will have resigned, one will have perked up and stopped whinging, one will go to HR (but you’ll be fine as you will have the notes from the 1-to-1), and one you will need to put on a formal improvement plan.

don’t stress, it will pass, just hold firm and document everything in a timeline!

OK, a lot of drip feed there, OP, which tells me you are doing it to present what you originally said in a more favourable light for you.

You come across as goal-oriented and not people-oriented. Nothing wrong with that, but you shouldn't be in a people management role. And you shouldn't step into HR shoes if HR is there. I think you're not suited for this job or rather this job doesn't suit you.

If there are several particularly challenging and disruptive employees and it known to the management then it is the management's failure that they have not been either corrected or managed out of the business via performance management or disciplinary.

If it is the case that the employees are not buying into the management style then this is also management failure because this is highly likely a communication issue on the part of the relevant manager(s).

I've read all your updates. You are dealing with a toxic lazy legacy team that don't like change. They have line managers and the chatty bits and complaints should be dealt with by them. I'd set clear expectations and deadlines. If not met and constantly complaining, move to performance plans and exits. I disagree that every leader needs to be a people pleaser .... you need the bar raised and if its a crowd that's been here for ages they generally think they rule the roost. I've seen this before - it's unhealthy. If you can't change the people.... change the people ! Good luck OP

Double posted

I’d manage the toxic bullies out of their jobs. Their behaviour is obviously affecting other colleagues too.

I feel exhausted and bullied and this thread has just enforced that people only have their own narrative and don’t take time to look at any nuances, this is not a black vs white or good vs bad

So you're too busy and important to even pretend to care about your team, but your feelings matter hugely, and nuance and sensitivity should be liberally employed when those are being discussed.

You're really considering performance reviews and final warnings when the issue isn't performance or actual misconduct? You use those as tools to get rid of people because they piss you off?

I think you’ve left out an option- get some leadership training and a mentor. Based on what you’ve said and the tone in which you’ve said it I’m not surprised you are unpopular as a manager. Take the time to listen to them - treat them like people (not “humans”).