Is working full time harming my kids?

[Jraven]

Ok as if I don't feel guilty enough for working, there's a study out today published by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation which says that working full time while your kids are pre-school increases their chances of psychological stress, unemployment and doing less well at A level. What should we do - all pack it in? Where are these mythical part-time, flexi-hour jobs that we have be promised so long? Is the government's policy of getting mothers back to work all wrong?

Whether you use one income or two to secure a mortgage is a dilemma faced around the whole of the UK.

BKate, you have highlighted factors that make the London market more extreme than other areas in the UK. There are, indeed, many factors which affect the housing market as a whole.

The point remains that many dual income families face a crunch when children arrive as the cost base in society has adapted to absorb two incomes.

i like a good fight miself and this thread is great......so if people are fed up of it.....they dont have to contribute.i work cos i have to,there is no choice in the matter,which i think is THE most important point I HAVE NO CHOICE, but even if we were financially stable to the point where i could stay at home -i wouldnt cos the kids drive me up the wall.., people do what poeple do to get by in life, kids are more resiliant than most people give them credit for. so the other argument would be not to have children unless you have the money to stay at home? which would suggest theat poor parents are not good parents - some people should make their minds up - becuse some of us live in a world where our priorities are actually so demoralising. things like have i got enough money to get to work AND put a meal on the table.....choices choices.....but this is real stuff. so providing a balanced diet , whether they watch too much tv, whether NOT breastfeeding them as children was the best option < which for me it was> whether i am a bad mother for going to work are not even debates in my head, i do what i have to, to get by day to day! as do most people

To digress slightly, and this is meant as an ironic interval and not one for you to get scratchy about...please!

There's a woman who is often interviewed in our local paper since she's an amazingly highly qualified civil engineer (shock horror!) and she has 5 children and stays at home (shock horror!). The reason I could cheerfully wring her neck every time she burbles on about how she made her choice to stay at home to look after her children, etc etc, blah blah blah, and how terrible women are who go out to work blah blah blah - is how wonderful it must be to be financially so secure that you can have FIVE children and not HAVE to do any paid work at all!!! Before you ask, hubby does not have a high powered job, in fact she was the main breadwinner before producing the famous five. She appears to be completely oblivious to the fact that other people's lives may not be running on quite the same lines as hers!

To further astound you, my daughter informs me that her classmate's mum, a woman I christened the brood mare after producing her 7th child in as many years is now on number 10!! I'm wearing my flame proof pants when I say - in this day and age is 10 children really necessary? Perhaps she's providing her husband with his own home grown workforce?! They're not Romany either, just in case you were wondering, but then they're past the 7th son of a 7th anyway...

Sorry, back to the serious business then..

For me, I wouldn't say 10 was "necessary" but since it is now estimated that 25% of women will not go on to have children anyway, I guess it all evens out in the end.

Malmomum you made a very good point about house prices being inflated by two incomes becoming the norm, and I am so relieved noone took this as a signal to start arguing about whether women should go out to work!
As for big families,I am absolutely astonished that anyone has the energy to have ten children! I know a woman with eight and they are all lovely and well adjusted/well behaved and more surprisingly so is their mother!And she goes out to work.
My third is due soon ( as if you did not know!) and I am knackered!
I just do not have anything like the energy required to manage a household of so many little people .......think of the ironing ...YIKES!And that is before you start to even consider the financial implications.
Anyone out there got first hand experience of being part of a huge family, either as a mum or as a child?

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Robinw. Get a grip! You are the only one who thinks this thread is so bad.
And really it is not your duty to point anythink out to us we are all grown women here and we don't need you to think for us.
Pain inflicted???If you really are THAT sensitive over things printed on a website I dread to think what your like in real life.
BTW.PAmina Enid and myself have all had the good grace to apologise if we have upset anyone but STILL you couldn@t resist posting again and preaching to us.
WHY?????

OH, MY GOD!!!
I cannot beleive what I have just seen.
Robinw has started a thread were all us and I quote "Bigots and Bitches" can carry on any debates away from the sensitive eyes of herself.
Iam truly astounded .
That is by far the most chidish and immature post I have EVER seen.

Callie Ive just read it and I think she is talking about a move to the country and she cant get away from the bitches and bigots in the village. Have another read and see what you think.

Over the weekend, two news stories reminded me of this thread.

One baby in the care of a childminder is shaken to death. She is found guilty by the jury and then her past record of malpractice is revealed.

Another baby, in the care of his parents, is abandoned by them in Portugal, outside and alone in his pram.

Neglect knows no boundaries does it?

Joe I see what you mean. But I do think she is clearly saying she cant get away from the bitches and bigots in the country but she can on mumsnet by starting a new thread were all us bitches and bigots can post.
It was her round about way of calling us a load of bitches and bigots.

Yes I saw it too callie but wasn't going to respond as I felt it wasn't worth stooping to her level.
It was obviously aimed at every one who has taken part in this thread. Why else would you bring up bitches and bigots in the v next sentence to her saying she was starting a new thread for us all?

What I really cannot understand about this whole thing is that in her original post, Pamina made it abundantly clear that the only reason why she was irritated by the other mothers was their lack of tact - NOT their decision to stay at home with their children. I imagine that if Pamina was say, overweight and she was surrounded by a group of very thin women who went on about how hideous it would be to be fat and how they simply couldn't bear it etc etc she would have been tempted to make a comment about the sexiness of the fuller figure or soemthing - I'm sure that wouldn't have been interpreted as an attack on thin people!!. She made it clear it was a rant because she felt upset rather than a deliberate remark about nursery care versus SAHM.

Can't say I see much logic in Malmo's argument that it is 2 salaries that have caused the inflation in house prices. House prices have risen on average by 50% since 1998 and they collapsed in 1987 before a slow recovery began in 1995. This was obviously related first and foremost to interest rates with unemployment and the health of the economy additional factors.
I'm not aware of women flooding the workplace since 1998.

I know very little about nurseries but I know enough about the people who choose this form of childcare that children in them are certainly not ignored and are very much loved.

Tinker, Just to say the evil VAT inspector has gone now (actually she was relly nice and we had a laugh) I guess I was just feeling really sorry for myself and being over sensitive to some of the comments. Anyway soory if I offended you.
On a more general note, I'm all for everyone having their say, but is it really necessary for some of them to be so bitchy?
Live and Let live and here here to ScrummyMummy I agree with:

Mum = Good
Stay at Home & Working = Irrelevant

Tigermoth, having read this string with my mouth wide open this morning, you said what i wanted to i think! Doesn't anyone on this string realise that the differences between working, or not working make no difference to the child as long as the child is being WELL LOOKED AFTER!!!! It can be your mum, a nanny or a neighbour, compared to the neglect and bad-parenting that really produces the screwed up kids - our kids will be fine!!!!!!

Just look at Lisav's thread on her neighbours ignorant upbringing of their little girland the high numbers of child abuse/neglect cases. Do those mum work? I bet there's no correlation - in fact I'm sure the child would rather be with a caring nanny than an uncaring mum.

We should save our 'bitching' for those parents that really deserve it!

Well, well I disapear for a while and what happens "ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE!!!!!!!". What is going on here?, for those who don't know me I am a SAH Working Mother on a Farm well, in fact 2 farms now of over 3000 acres. I agree with Lils posting, which is infact a miracle isn't it Lil!!.
As for the comment about the Government wanting mothers back to work, well I will say nothing, as I really don't know what their idea is at all, having spoken to a lot of other mothers.
Anyway it is nice to be back!

Tigger, welcome back!

Some of the messages here, Lil, seem to be suggesting that every working mother is neglecting their child. The comments that started this included nurseries "must" leave children alone for long periods and ignore them and that working mothers care more about spending than about their child. This is supposed to be debate? It seems like abuse to me. The strange part is that the mothers who have made these comments seem to be planning to return to work at a relatively early stage. Most people send their children off to school when they would undoubtably have more personal contact and attention at home. Rather inconsistent, surely they should be home educating? I thought this was a pleasant and welcoming site but after reading this perhaps its not a site I want to visit.

Hi, Two-Farm-Tigger! Welcome back and a belated happy new year.

Welcome back Tigger, hope you're well and that you bring back some light hearted relief to these boards!!

Tigger, it's good to hear from you again!

Ha Ha Tigger, your brand of down to earthness has been missed - hope you've recovered from the trauma of foot and mouth.

Viv - absolutely no offence taken whatsoever! Just being cheeky